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Mattias
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(@meyes)
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I´m thinking about all these masculine myths, that giving up is the only way to gain true strength. Like Hercules fighting the Hydra; it was only when he surrendered and managed to get UNDER the hydra and lift it up, that he managed to win.

As well as in the greek myths as in the Marvel universe, it´s a central theme, if not THE central theme; that only by loosing can we win.

Now I wonder: Are there any similiar female myths?

I might be wrong, but I think that we haven´t needed many, because that´s what femininity has been about per se; to be just as good, just as strong as the man, yet giving up some of your strength for balance and fulfillment. So giving up strength has been a natural part of it.

So now, if women choose to walk a more masculine path, they have to learn to identify (I think) with Hercules who fought the Hydra, with all the sad Marvel characters, Odysseus, the failure of Iason etc. Or get lost in their own Super Woman myth, that is not going to show them (I think) where the only gate to heaven is, for man and for women: through surrender.

To make my question really clear: Are there any similar myths for feminine side of the psyche (and for the woman)? There might be, and many of them, they just don´t pop into my mind.

Mattias

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Mattias
Posts: 633
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(@meyes)
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Of course myths like Cinderella and the Beautie and the beasts, and many like them, are all about surrender as a way to glory. But in them the girls act in traditional female roles. What about our time, where myths like The girl with the dragon tattoo, Super Woman and the Kill Bill lady - are they going to develop their weak shadow as well? Or is it being expressed already, allthough I miss to see it (I don´t watch many movies neither)?

(I learnt from Cristopher Mac Dougall´s book Natural born heroes that the greek word heroes has it´s root in compassion and that the very central theme in the greek hero myths was about how they manage to turn their weaknesses into strength. Out of compassion - a vulnerable state - they become powerful.)

Mattias

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Leela
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(@leela)
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Of course, there are mythologies involving women, at least in India and the East in general. Not just myths, but there are also real-woman examples too (seers, mystics, philosopher-poets, even warriors). 

Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast are fairy tales, they are not mythologies. Fairy Tales are moral stories, they have simplistic and moral conclusions. "Do this, be this way, doing this is good, doing this is bad, doing this will make you fulfilled bla bla". They are often childish, insipid and uninspiring. They merely reinforce the status quo, the social agenda that the only surrender possible for a woman is a man or a child, which is simply not true. They discourage women from asking questions because asking questions is dangerous to society, for one may discover that what was sold as truth was merely an illusion. 

Myths are amoral, they are concerned with showing us the truth of something. It's a revelation of a certain consciousness. They are not concerned with being palatable or morally right. And they usually inspire... or cause fear and discomfort, I suppose. Probably that's why Goddess Kali is so misunderstood. Foolish men give silly interpretations (like Jordan Peterson, and some other doctorates). Wise men at least keep quiet on what they don't understand. 

Personally, I think women have a more complex journey (if they must become their Best Self) because they have to learn and trust their own strength and power and then they have to learn to surrender. Without strength, there can be no true surrender, only actions coming from self-preservation, habit, biology or fear. 

I don't think women are here to be a sidekick to men, or to be a second in the hierarchy to a man, with male action and vision being of top priority around which she is supposed to unequivocally organize herself for the sake of an intimate relationship. 
Nor is a woman obligated to organize her life around her biological capacities, if that is not the right thing for her. But that is how man has thought of her and continues to do so. And women did probably start off as the innocent moon, reflecting and reacting- they, unfortunately, believed what men have historically philosophized about them, to their own detriment. 

So now it is up to a woman herself, she has an arduous journey of seeking her own truth- and understanding her strength, her power, her vision and respecting herself for it. (I don't necessarily mean strength in a physical sense). All this is not equivalent to man-hate, but men see a woman committed to the idea of finding and living her own truth and ignoring the male gaze as "man-hate", which shows a lot about the insecurity of men.

And- without strength and willpower, what is someone even surrendering? 
I like what Mirra Alfassa (or The Mother, as she is often called) says (paraphrasing)- You need to be able to look at the Divine and say I want what You want. But that doesn't mean anything if you don't have a well-developed Will to offer. 

 
Maybe that surrender will lead to different outcomes in men and women, though. I find it interesting that in Buddhism, Wisdom is represented by a female, and Compassion is represented by a male. Perhaps that is the respective outcome of their surrender.  
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Manisha
(@manisha)
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@leela 

Incredibly well said!! 

With regards to “Wisdom is represented by a female, and Compassion is represented by a male”, it points to achieving balance. Yin with no logic and too much lost in her emotions is a blubbering fool, and Yang with no emotions and too much logic is a tyrannical dictator. It is much more true with regards to the twin energies present within us.

On a material level, even though a female is represented by majority of women and male by majority of men, the vice versa is also true, where men are way too emotional and take on the role of Yin, and women take on too much logic and take on the role of Yang.

Balance is the only thing that helps us truly see. So the surrender really is that of what is excessive within us.

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Mattias
(@meyes)
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@leela The funny thing is, Leela, that both of us are 5 of Clubs, struggling in vain with the world. Five of Clubs is, to my understanding, all about letting go of concepts and ideas. Even about complete surrender: 9 of Spades on the Rahu card. If we stick to our truths and believes Pluto is there to flog us through the 4 of Clubs card.

Mattias

 

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Leela
(@leela)
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Posted by: @meyes

that both of us are 5 of Clubs, struggling in vain with the world.

Maybe that is your experience. Personally, I don't think any struggle is in vain, if we have the eyes to see it (or develop it)

Posted by: @meyes

If we stick to our truths and believes Pluto is there to flog us through the 4 of Clubs card.

Well okay, lead by example then, change your beliefs. 

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Mattias
(@meyes)
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@leela. There is no way, I think, that I can answer that without contradicting myself. 😆

Maybe starting to learn the - I insist - 5 of Clubs lesson.

Mattias

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Leela
(@leela)
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@meyes 

insistence is antithetical to 'letting go of ideas' 😉  

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Mattias
(@meyes)
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@leela I KNOW Leela,or should I say "know", haha? That´s the wonderful, impossible 5 of Clubs lesson, I think. Just look at our spread - our overlying card, our natural tendency as we grow, is 4 of Clubs, "understanding", "stability in ideas", "realism". And that´s our Pluto card! My conclusion: we really really don´t get it until we give up e v e r y t h i n g (9 of Spades on the Rahu card), every ounce of ego attachment. Which of course is very hard to do, but wow, are we invited to grow spiritually, if we choose that path. Then, when we stop fighting for understanding, we are allowed to understand. To some degree. Again: that´s how I read the spread.

Personally I have Ketu in the 5th house, Ernst somewhere says that Ketu´s placement gives us our idea of God. In my case a humourist, who loves to give us those impossible missions that only an ego collapse or a big leap can resolve.

Mattias

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