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You can´t get a man with a gun

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Leela
Posts: 195
(@leela)
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Shoulds and shoulds and a million rules. If I saw even a single person preaching these rules being TRULY happy, radiantly happy- I'd probably follow it in a heartbeat. Example is better than precept, as they say. 

All I see is people being stressed and trying desperately to get others to follow their rules, and so scared of the idea that someone could be happy outside of the "rules".

To me it's simple- the more I cast off shoulds, the happier I am. 

 

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Manisha
Posts: 519
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@meyes 

Posted by: @meyes

I think you´d better address Ernst explaining to him why his teaching is wrong, Manisha. I think it´s a great song, that´s all. I can´t see that it denies any of the real Anne Oakley´s qualities; I was 30 years since I saw the musical but if I remember it correctly she´s depicted as a quite independent woman, strong in her masculine side. Which doesn´t take anything away from this one song, expressing the frustration of hers (the muscial Annie Oakley, not necessarily the historical one) of having to act in a female way for to bond.

It might be a great song, but I still can’t see the connection of the central theme of your post about women’s strong independent masculine side not getting them a man, especially since in the musical and in the movie and in Annie Oakley’s real life, she did get a man even when she continued using a gun.

Are you saying that you are only using a portion of her life to validate your perspective?

As for Ernst, I don’t need to address him at all, because I understand his teachings and I understand what he means for a woman to be receptive. It works wonderfully in my life and I am both admired and cherished not only by my family but also people I meet. I did not have to change myself at all, nor learn to bat my eyelashes at men or iron their underwear or wear frilly frocks or walk around with an umbrella or learn to swoon. So I guess I am doing something right. 

I also understand what it means for a woman to be cherished for who she is and for a man to be respected for his actions.

A great example is this thread itself. I have been open and receptive to you. I have also been patient with you. I have been caring and compassionate towards you. These are all feminine qualities that I have expressed towards you. In return, I have been verbally abused. You also have made attempts to discredit me, and used my astrological placements against me to try to prove your point. The masculine actions I got in return for my patience and openness and receptiveness were personal attacks, which as I had mentioned earlier, have no affect or effect on me, and is a waste of time.

Your perspective on the central theme of your post still has not been clarified, but a lot of evasive and deflective tactics have been used while ‘discussing’ the points.

Not only me and Leela, but Francesca, who spoke very compassionately and kindly to you, and tried to be on your side, got sarcastic and condescending remarks from you like - 

Posted by: @meyes

Did you read the thread before you chose to have an opinion?

Posted by: @meyes

And frankly: it´s none of your business.

Since these are the actions of 1 man on this forum towards 3 women in the same thread, by following Ernst’s teachings I guess I get to choose as to how much respect I should give to this supposedly manly behaviour.

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Leela
(@leela)
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@manisha 

Thank you for patiently elaborating what many are thinking here, Manisha. Grateful for it.

Whether it is masculine or feminine of me- I certainly have no patience to respond to this man with such details anymore.

Receptivity just means listening- after listening there is ZERO obligation to say yes or agree to what has been listened to. Men, especially this man, seems to not understand that. He thinks he can bully women into agreeing with his shitty attitude- and if we don't, we're somehow not being "feminine" enough. I think it's incredibly feminine to say NO to such shit. I've definitely given him more than enough benefit of doubt

 

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Francesca
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@leela 

I completely agree with what you and Manisha have written and just wanted to note that in one of his recent videos or possibly an online meeting I attended Ernst himself said that one of the most powerful weapons in the feminine (or receptive) tool box is the power to choose what we let in and thus the power to say "no". Which is what the three of us have been doing.

Like you and Manisha have already suggested, the way he has addressed all of us speaks more about him than it does about us. To me, when people resort to personal attacks and vitriol, all that shows me is poor conflict solving skills and possibly that the person is overwhelmed and incapable of letting their emotions color their response and be in control of their actions (ironically, these are qualities commonly attributed to women).

As already previously stated, discussions about controversial issues such as abortion, the current war in Ukraine, religious and political beliefs, etc. are a part of my daily life. I firmly believe that stepping out of your bubble and surrounding yourself with people you disagree with keeps you on your toes. I've seen this work beautifully time and time again. But it only works when both sides respect each other and it's only about the issue at hand, never the people involved. I find verbal sparring to be intellectually stimulating - with the right people. Which is why, like you, desperate attempts at lashing back make me lose respect for people. But more than that they inspire compassion because they are such a clear indicator that the person engaging in those attempts does not have the necessary coping skills I would consider to be quite basic in most adults. Quite simply, people who know better, do better. And not losing one's calm when one's views are challenged should be a given (and is all the more disconcerting when it appears to be a pattern of behavior).

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Mattias
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tuyetv
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i will share with you my understanding of the meaning of the word "receptive" from my perspective of being a woman as this is not my strength. I have Rahu Ketu 1/7 in the angle, exalted but combust Mars, Leo Moon in the 2nd house. You get the drift. I am very independent and self-reliance, strong minded, and i am a doer for sure. I am impatient so that is why i often ended up doing the job rather than wait for the guy to do it, and i often do a better job too. I grew up in a family of all boys (I am the only girl), yet despite of that my parents have taught me both how to be a "lady" and to be independent and self-reliant. They taught me to think for myself. They also taught my brothers to cook, do dishes, laundry, ironing, and my brothers sometime do many of the house "chores" more than their wives.

Having said all that, i think the first course i took from Ernst was about 6 years ago and that was the Compatibility course. Ernst talked about the Moon and being "receptive". I contemplate on that for a long time because that is not my strength as stated above, and it is something that i want to improve on. I am not the type who listen to people and follow them blindly either. It has to make sense to me, and most of all it has to work for me. It has to make me happier inside.

Receptive means to me to listen without judgment, without forming a decision what should or should not be. Just to let go of everything and listen. Sometime when i listen to another person, i am actually listening to myself, to my emotions, to my own thoughts that i can't hear the other person especially if i don't like the other person. To listen without judgement is hard for me to do. If i have already made up my mind then why bother listen to the other person? I can only understand the other person when i am truly able to listen. That is what being receptive means to me. I am still working on it, but i am getting better at it. Being receptive is not being weak, not being subservient. It is about truly listening to the other person and letting go your ego, your judgement. Being receptive is not just for the women. It is for the men too. 

Relationship is funny. I have seen couples where the man is feminine and the woman is masculine, and it works for them. My parents have the traditional relationship. My mom was very "receptive". She has a healthy Moon. My dad told me that she made him a better man, a better person. People love my mom because she was not judgemental. She was gentle, loving, and looking at her you might think she is weak and subservient. But on the contrary, she ran the household. As strong, masculine as my dad was, he and all of my siblings we did what mom asked of us in her gentle, loving way. Being receptive is not being weak. It is being incredibly strong....

 

tuyet 

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astroalex
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@tuyetv Thank you for sharing this!

Alex

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LTmoon
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@tuyetv Perfect. Thank you for sharing.

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Leela
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(@leela)
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I don't know if receptivity is either strong or weak. To me, it just is. It will bring forth and trigger whatever the content is.

But, it's true that in any discussion, we all come at it from different angles based on our own ideas and perception, and by talking it out we clarify things. This is especially true in a place like a forum, as there is no real shared setting or camaraderie like in a classroom- we all just come and go. It can be a longer process to suss out where the other is coming from.

So in this topic, it's hard for me to pretend like there isn't also a power dynamic at play here- and a lot of this theorizing is attempting to shape that dynamic- whether intentionally or not.
So woman is placed firmly second in hierarchy with receptivity as her quality, and man is on top. I just categorically disagree with that.
I think sometimes men have the better vision, and at other times women do.
Even within a couple- it can play out differently at different points in time. To make a rule that a woman must always be receptive, and a man's actions and visions must always take precedence is a really selfish and egoistic expectation on the part of men (if that is what they expect), which they have to go beyond- I don't want to normalize it.

But, I don't deny that receptivity can be powerful and magical- almost a willful surrender. To use it as a strategy to snag a man cheapens the idea. But that is just me.  

A woman has no obligation to use her receptivity just for a man- she does have the choice of using it for her own divine inspirations too- yes, even if they are feeling or emotion based. Or she can also take that spark of inspiration from the great men and women of the past- which is how many get started. Men don't have some divine patent on the state of inspiration.

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Leela
(@leela)
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Moreover, Time changes things. Maybe too many things have been unleashed.
Is having power over husband and children and household really enough for women anymore? Is it really true strength? Plus, does it actually make them happy?
Are husband and children happy about all this? Is the onus on the woman to display just enough strength so she is still a gentle goddess rather than a demon that all want to escape from? Or is the wish to escape an insecurity and issue of the man that really has nothing to do with woman herself? Moreover isn't the woman only playing the "just enough strength" game because she is afraid of loneliness and so wants to keep the guy around?

I dunno- I guess I just think with more authenticity and understanding- and lesser rules, we humans can go beyond these petty games and relate with each other from a better space. But maybe I'm just a dreamer.

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