Dear @ernst
I looked at a chart born in 1962 with 6 Planets + Ke in Aquarius in the sixth bhava. A Virgo lagna with moon the only planet not joining the others standing in Capricorn. So Ve,Me,Jp are triple shamed while Su,Ma,Sa are double shamed. And these are only the shamed Avashtas, 15 of them!! How do we interpret these charts?
the damage is too much and seams irreversible....
I remember Ernst said when u have 4 or more planets in a house not counting rahu ketu n that house is destroyed n those planets will not do well either unless they are in the 1st 9th and 10th
tuyet
Dear @tuyetv
yes you are right. that I remember but i was wondering what happens on the psychological/Spiritual level specially the Avashtas.
Actress Jennifer Jason Leigh has a pretty crazy chart from that year. Born on Feb 5 1962, all 7 planets and Ketu in Aquarius, 9th house.
She is lucky it is the 9th...and only 2 planets are combust. Really saves her.
Sun is very powerful shadbala wise, and Ju loses yuddha with enemy Ve.
Her AK and lagna lord are not combust which really helps a lot. Allows Mo and Me to have higher cheshta which means they can activate and operate the mind/intelligence with more ability, skill, and adaptability. She has a couple of nice yogas with Brahma and chamara yogas which are just nice to the chart. I believe her Vipareet yoga is what really aids her though, but at the same time making things tough for non evil grahas.
All planets in a fixed air sign too with final dispositing planet, Sa in 9th making a 9th house theme. I would basically read this chart as an Aquarius type.
Sun is very important when you have this all in one sign as the Sun is the King and his kingdom is all in the same House/Castle. I believe this is called Gola yoga where you have all 7 planets in one sign. Very rare. I recall it is not auspicious in general. Too much 'stuff' in one place. Every planet is shamed like 3 times over and Sun is shamed twice. All with Ketu shows a past life theme here and Rahu's lord is with Ketu and Ketu's lord showing she has done Rahu before (acting, skills, self expression stuff in 3rd in Leo). Every avastha is happening fully lol.
This actress had her father die in a tragic manner. her marriage didn't last very long either, well 5 years which is long for hollywood standards...She coins herself as shy, introverted, and averse to hollywood publicity and scandal. But successful and famous too, obviously.
Fun chart.
Well done making some sense with that chart. All 7 planets in one sign is rare indeed. Using astro-seek.com ephemeris search engine it's happened only 5 times during years 0 - 2500. 531, 907, 1662, 1962 and 2000. 531 and 1962 have a node in there as well.
Ephemeris Search Engine, Advanced Astrology Online Planet Positions Seeker (astro-seek.com)
Those 7 planets are not making any argala. Only moon makes argala from 7th.
D20 is looking good especially with 8th cusp which is the key cusp of spiritual devotion. 3rd cusp pada is great too. 3rd from Jupiter is good too.
In d24, 11th cusp is good. 12th cusp lord mercury is having manifestation too. 12th pada is more good than bad.
D16 is more good than bad too.
Spiritual vargas are too good than bad things from concrete perspective.
D45 - 9th cusp/lord is in great position. 9th from sun is great.
Indeed he is having extremely difficult life because of those conjuctions but if he is making efforts to surrender his life to God and Guru, that is what can only save him.
Are you talking about the chart that Ramin posted (the meditator) or actress jennifer jason leigh?? I believe planets in the 9th form argala? Right? Planets in 9th are forming the trine argala. Plus rahu in 3rd forms argala as a malefic.
Okay, we were writing about Jennifer Jason Leigh is who has 8 planets in Aquarius in the 9th for our sub-topic here..I got confused which chart we were discussing.
Actually as @ernst teaches four or more planet in a house will destroy the house and loose all their functionality except when in the 1st,9th and 10th Bhava. But how to interpret the avashtas that's my question. Specially for the severe case I mentioned above.
Do the amount of shamed avasthas line up with the person and their life (what you know of it)?
Well dear @leela
That's not easy to say. The Person is kind of a sanyasi, had only one job of being a meditation instructor, with no house, no cars, no wife or girlfriend. He was just friends with fellow mediators and did not even have a private place to sleep.
It's been years that he has left the normal world to join a group of meditators in the Himalayas, meditating 12 to 16 hours a day with not much contact with the outer world.
He comes down once every few years to renew his Indian Visa. He seams to love his life thinking it's the best thing he is doing for the growth of his consciousness and serving his Guru.
But this could all be a compensation for the inner dis-balance , lack of security and the need to feel something good about himself. Actually in my opinion it is. i think what he is doing is far more destructive to the evolution of his soul that one can imagine.
It's unfortunate to see the amount of people who use spirituality as a tool for compensating their lacks and closing their eyes on their true inner problems.
Astrologically as @ernst mentions, unless we face the avashtas that show are inner/mental/emotional habits that blind us to our true self and inner voice, what ever we do outside is more a compensation rather than walking a path of true self realization.
Yet my question remains; with such complex avashtas should we simply analyze each one by one like other charts, or we have to take an other approach. If one by one, then correcting even one shamed avashta is hard enough, what about 15 of them?
Also for this chart take into consideration the Ashta planets, Jupiter loosing planetary war to Mercury specially when he is the 4th lord, Sara yoga, the only good planet is Moon lord of the 11th which is not good for the charts evolution, ...... . I don't see much of a chance for this person.
In one class Ernst said, 4 or more planets joined together have less opportunity for growth except 1,9th and 10th. So at other places, they don't grow and can cause people to go for the path of renunciation and that should be fine I think as long as they are truly into it. 16 hours of meditation daily shows extremely serious commitment to the path and will eventually liberate him from all the inner turmoil. The real battle of a person doesn't lie in the external world but in the inner world and if he is taking it heads on consciously with the help of a true Guru, then it's all very much appreciated in my opinion.
Krishna says in Gita even the worst sinner who takes refuge at his feet will be liberated. So with 16 hours of daily meditation, he should have some good spiritual yogas getting activated too.
सर्वधर्मान्परित्यज्य मामेकं शरणं व्रज।
अहं त्वा सर्वपापेभ्यो मोक्षयिष्यामि मा शुचः।।18.66।।
BG 18.66: Abandon all varieties of dharmas and simply surrender unto Me alone. I shall liberate you from all sinful reactions; do not fear.
Dear @amit
your are right, but not all gurus are true and not all meditation techniques are liberating. Also @ernst mentions that if the Sun is there and has combust some of the planets then one my not be came a true sanyasi. BTW the chart has them in the 6th.
Please note I have no problem with that kind of life; yet one could live such a life and not be true to himself.
I find it interesting that in spite of having a very Ketu-heavy 6th house chart, he actually seems to have moved to his Rahu? Maybe one way to interpret is just that his soul knows and understands the difficulty of earthly life, through the experience of his past lives- and has chosen a circumstance where the earthly life would provide no temptation and he can focus solely on meditation and surrender.
I think it's also dangerous to speak in absolutes- "seems irreversible", "not much of a chance". Is anyone really a sinner enough to be irredeemable, or saint enough to be infallible?
Posted bBut this could all be a compensation for the inner dis-balance , lack of security and the need to feel something good about himself.
I mean, it'd be nice if we did something solely for the "good" reasons-- but in practice, everything is a mixed bag, isn't it? Sometimes, even if we begin something due to "bad" reasons, by sticking to it for long enough we sometimes start to change.
Postedi think what he is doing is far more destructive to the evolution of his soul that one can imagine.
How so? Maybe it is true, or it isn't (I don't know this person)- but you haven't given any real reason as to why you believe so.
Posted byIt's unfortunate to see the amount of people who use spirituality as a tool for compensating their lacks and closing their eyes on their true inner problems.
True... yet, it's not as easy to just renounce everything and get up and leave and meditate for 14-16 hours though. If he has done that and stuck to it for so many years, maybe there is some truth to it- at least the level of truth he is able to live.
Dear @leela
thank you for your attention.
I also agree with you that one must not talk in absolute terms, I didn't think the terms "seems irreversible" or "not much of a chance" sound absolute.
It's just that there is much lower chance to be able to correct 15 shamed Avashtas.
What you say about Rahu is right. Just note that Rahu's Lord is with Ketu, meaning his evolutionary path relies more on Ketu. Also the deeper aspect of Rahu/Ketu path relies on their singes.
Well my feelings about this person is more intuitive which can not be considered a fact, that's why I'm looking into his chart. Actually If these kind of charts could be analyzed like a normal chart then it shows that there are very deep and complicated problems in his psychology. But can it? that's my main question to @ernst.
If what he is doing is a false identification, then as time passes by it will be harder to get out of it and start correcting the avashtas. this is one of the reasons I said what he dose may be more destructive. Creating a strong false Spiritual identification!
I don't think it matters how true is the path he is walking, it's important to understand how true he is to himself. Good things can be used badly specially on the psychological level.
I think he will return to finish 6th house karmas once he gets greater realization through Ra in 12th position.
Indian PM Modi is said to spent a lot of time in Himalayas before he was sent back to carry out a greater mission in the world.
He is developing his Leo (greater self esteem) through meditation as rahu asking him to do, once he feels like a lion, he should be ready to start being a karma yogi 6th house demand. Without internal realization 12th house, a person cannot be a true karma yogi 6th house in my opinion.
True Leo is having lot of spiritual consciousness vs Aquarius who is a humanitarian sign of doing great deeds for humanity. First developing spiritual consciousness is essential before one can embark to help others.
Do you know who is his Guru and if he is self realized or not ?
Dear @amit
I know his Guru who has passed away for some time. Even if the guru was a self realized soul, I'm sure the ones who have taken over are not.
Even though passed, if his Guru is self realized and 16 hours show he is indeed into it, eventually he will be fine. With that trashed 6th house, he can't do anything anyways and with ketu there he is hyper aware about it and he has to let go of all of it as 6th house is a transition house. He has to build his connection with divine consciousness. He has no other option.
When it comes to avasthas on this kind of level and even dealing with the avasthas in general, I feel we simply have to tune into our intuition to get a sense of how the conditions (avasthas) of the planets are really working (especially with this kind of chart). Obviously, Ramin, you know this person and I don't so your take can certainly be valid that you don't think this person is benefiting from all that meditation. I have met people that try to meditate long hours but it tends to be imbalancing. I find it rare that somebody can meditate that much in a balanced way that is actually beneficial. You can find guru's charts that have 'bad' avasthas but to me those planetary conditions are simply working on a more higher level when it comes to there inner nature.
Dear @scott-m-19
I agree with you in all your points. I've also seen gurus with problematic charts but not this much!
Dear @leela
I don't consider "seems irreversible"or "not much of a chance" absolute terms. It's just that the chance of getting out of 15 shamed avashtas is low.
It's not about bad reasons or practising meditation or being a workaholic in the material world, it's about if what one is doing will give him a chance to correct or come out of these avashtas.
@ernst mentions in the first lajjitaadi avashta course in the videos on Sa Avashtas, where Sa is starved by Mars: "Yogananda has said most of what people think is the spiritual path is really the psychological path, once the psychological path is completed, the spiritual battle is very quickly Won".
If what one dose, creates a false identification with something he is not, and this false identification gets stronger by time, it will be very hard to get out of it.
I know the owner of the chart very well, in one of his journeys back to the material world we meditated together and I could feel him. It didn't seem right or healthy.
My feelings may all be wrong; that's why I'm also looking into his chart; and the question remains: can normal techniques simply apply to these kind of charts?
If yes, then about 4 or more planets together @ernst says if Sun is there and some of the planets are ashta then the sanyasi path will not be true.
Also his Rahu lord with Ketu indicates that the evolutionary path for this person relies more on concentrating on his Ketu in this life time.
Thank you for you attention and insights.