Are astrologers occultists?
I wasn´t exactly sure where in the forum I should put this post, but I still believe that this post is relevant for the practice of Astrology, because it is important to have an awareness of our language....
Often Ernst and other astrologers who were taught by him speak about the „occult“ principles that underlie astrological work. I wondered why Ernst chose the term „occult“ instead of „esoteric“. Is it because it is more popular according to Google search statistics?
I personally dislike the word „occult“. The word naturally brings to mind western occultists like Aleister Crowley and orders like O.T.O., Golden Dawn etc..
„Occult“ means „hidden“ and as such has an air of the forbidden, the dark and the secretive, perhaps that is why the word is so popular.
While I have no problem with practices like ceremonial magic, seals, rituals etc.., I don´t think that these practices can automatically be labeled as spirituality either. What makes a practice spiritual or not is only the understanding with which you are doing it.
If I summon an archangel in order to take care of my problems, is that spiritual? - I would say no.
There is nothing wrong with it (nothing right with it either). It is just like asking a powerful person, like a king, to help you. Spirituality lies in seeing the interconnectedness of life and how you figure in the grand scheme of things. If you worship an aspect of the Divine as a manifestation of the all pervading intelligence and awareness (which is your true nature), then you´re showing spiritual understanding. For this reason Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita rightfully calls the worship of the Angels as rajasic devotion. It is not because worshiping Angels is wrong, it is because one´s understanding is incomplete.
Further on Youtube you find so many so called occultists, who unabashedly state that it is OK to curse other people or practice „arts“ like black magic. These people clearly have no understanding at all of the Law of Karma and the Law of Dharma. There are universal laws like the fact that no human and no animal wants to be hurt, abused or lied to. If I infringe on these laws (non-violence, truthfulness, non-stealing etc..) I will have to face the consequences sooner or later. The Law of Dharma is infallible. Nobody, (not even the most powerful occultist on earth :-)) can evade the results of his or her actions.
Then people who are practicing „Magic or the Occult“ often have no understanding of the origin of the results of their actions. Many of them are under the illusion of control. They think that they can „manifest“ their desires, control the spirits or create change according to their will. Actually no one on Earth can do these things. Why? - Because you are not the giver of the results of your actions. You only have control over the choice of your actions. The results are provided by the whole interconnected field of laws, principles and causes. If I want a relationship with Scarlett Johannson, will it help to do rituals and work on my intention, in order to attract her? - Perhaps it does, but does that mean that I will marry her? How many other males also would like to have a rendezvous with her? - Well, she already happens to be married to a successful comedian, that´s why the law of attraction won´t work in this case (not that such a law actually exists).
For all these mentioned reasons I plead for the usage of the word „esoteric“. I know it has the smell of incense and aroma candles, but it´s actual meaning is „inner“. It has the nice connotation of turning away your consciousness from outer pursuits and materialism and instead focusing on your inner worlds. How will you become aware of your true nature, your true self? Definitely not with an exoteric orientation on objects and experiences (not even so called spiritual experiences) but by cultivating an inner life and real understanding.
So, to start a little discussion let me ask some slightly provocative questions: Are astrologers occultists? Have you already manifested your dreams? What would be your word of choice for the underlying symbology of astrology?
Astrologers are more like nurses who need to comfort the sick people to grow out of their pain and move forward on the path of evolution.
8th house is soul journey which is career factor for astrolger which he is reading in the charts.
Soul journey is usually unknown to people. So it can be called to have the connotation of occult as that's normally not able to explain in general. Esoteric or Mysticism is more associated with yogic practices that eventually give exalted states of divine consciousness.
The way I see it is that ‘occult’ and ‘esoteric’ are different layers of the same thing. While ‘occult’ is hidden from view, ‘esoteric’ goes beyond what is hidden to see what is. Astrology can be the beginning of seeing the ‘occult’ which is how it is generally used, but we can take it further to see the ‘esoteric’.
The use of mantras which equate to ceremonial magic and rituals, lie on one of the layers, when separation is still experienced. The belief is that, “There is someone out there who is helping me.” It is one level of spirituality.
The next one would be going deeper, into the esoteric view of things and experiencing that there is no separation. What is out there is within us. Calling on someone else to help is similar to calling on the self to help.
I agree that there are many who are not aware that there is more than the level that they have reached. But then, that is part of their journey - to awaken to the reality of “This is not it either.”
Each and every action has an equal and opposite reaction. It is the Law of Action (Karma). Every breath we take creates a problem somewhere else. Every word we speak causes a ripple somewhere. But walking the path of Dharma, by default, creates Karma and its repercussions, whether good or bad. I would think that until the universe exists and we are part of that consciousness, it will be hard to get away from Karmic repercussions. The best we can do is accept it as part of our path within the growing consciousness.
We all have desires, and we all manifest them constantly. Trouble is that we are focused on something else when we are manifesting. So when that thing does not come into our life, we think that it does not work. But perhaps it has materialised in some other way that we are not aware of, and is much better for us than what we had hoped for. But because our focus lies somewhere else, we might reject it. Someone might want Scarlett Johannson, and come across many women who would be a much better girlfriend or wife. But are they seeing that? It is the way energy works, which is different to how the mind perceives or wants things to be.
Any of the terms you guys used are fine really...they don't trigger me the wrong way.
Astrology for me, is about knowledge and wisdom. It doesn't really matter what names and definitions it's taken in the course of time. No word can articulate sufficiently its vasteness, as it's just too heavy and too huge of a science. I'd say for me it encompasses the ALL and beyond 😀
So if 21st century requires a more trendy definition for something that encompasses it ALL, sure....we can try that too...it's been done before...differentiation, labeling - is what Mercury cares to do though, not so much Jupiter. We can call it a "joke" and I still wouldn't get offended as I am crystal clear what it means to me though I wouldn't ever be able to do it justice by defining it, nor do I have the talent pr vocabulary to attempt.
The idea of "occult sciences" developed in the sixteenth century. The term usually encompassed three practices—astrology, alchemy, and natural magic—although sometimes various forms of divination were also included rather than being subsumed under natural magic. These were grouped together because, according to the Dutch scholar of hermeticism Wouter Hanegraaff, "each one of them engaged in a systematic investigation of nature and natural processes, in the context of theoretical frameworks that relied heavily on a belief in occult qualities, virtues or forces." Although there are areas of overlap between these different occult sciences, they are separate and in some cases practitioners of one would reject the others as being illegitimate.
During the Age of Enlightenment, occultism increasingly came to be seen as intrinsically incompatible with the concept of science. From that point on, use of "occult science(s)" implied a conscious polemic against mainstream science. Nevertheless, the philosopher and card game historian Michael Dummett, whose analysis of the historical evidence suggested that fortune-telling and occult interpretations using cards were unknown before the 18th century, said that the term occult science was not misplaced because "people who believe in the possibility of unveiling the future or of exercising supernormal powers do so because the efficacy of the methods they employ coheres with some systematic conception which they hold of the way the universe functions...however flimsy its empirical basis."
1530s, "secret, not divulged," from French occulte and directly from Latin occultus "hidden, concealed, secret," past participle of occulere "cover over, conceal," from assimilated form of ob "over" (see ob-) + a verb related to celare "to hide" (from PIE root *kel- (1) "to cover, conceal, save"). Meaning "not apprehended by the mind, beyond the range of understanding" is from 1540s. The association with the supernatural sciences (magic, alchemy, astrology, etc.) dates from 1630s. A verb occult "to keep secret, conceal" (c.1500, from Latin occultare) is obsolete."
"secret; intended to be communicated only to the initiated; profound," 1650s, from Latinized form of Greek esoterikos "belonging to an inner circle" (Lucian), from esotero "more within," comparative adverb of eso "within," from PIE *ens-o-, suffixed form of *ens, extended form of root *en "in." Classically applied to certain writings of Aristotle of a scientific, as opposed to a popular, character; later to doctrines of Pythagoras. In English, first of Pythagorean doctrines."
It seems there is an overlap between the origin and meaning of the two words with esoteric being secret but with more emphasis on the knowledge secretly held by a group as seen in relief to the opposing term, exoteric, meaning knowledge intended and understood by the general public. In this case it could be very helpful to use the word occult when referring to things that are "naturally" secret, or beyond the range of the ordinary sense perception since they are not granted due to initiatory means in particular but through the revelation of one's own mind.
In the course of shifting popular opinion words demonized and words applauded come and go but through the shifting waves it seems useful to have definitions that help delineate the space between meanings and those they share to facilitate accuracy in the communication of meaning. It is perhaps sad that the word "occult" is dressed in black, but it's that apart of it's very meaning of being hidden and isn't the most feared thing the unknown and so naturally a word describing knowledge from hidden sources will carry connotations born from the misperception and fear of the masses. Those who wish to go beyond the ordinary and touch the essence will wear either obviously or inconspicuously the cangue of the outcast until their mind is totally sublimated into the universal intelligence of all. If you don't like the word occult then perhaps Scorpio and your 8th house is afflicted!