So if Ernst is right, in the adityas´system the 8th house is Vishnu. Vishnu that is all about transformation. About becoming what you never thought that you were.
That´s an 8th theme very might alined with the idea of the 8th house.
Scorpio seems to be more about being secretive, controling, keeping the cards close to one´s chest. Just as religion, at least in the Christan world, has been acting throughout the years that the tropical zodiac has been in use.
It seems to me that we now have to complementary ways of reading a chart, one (the tropical) that alines with the world that we know is build on false premises. I think we should expect it to work fine still, since it perfectly reflects the world we live in.
Then we have the adityas´ astrology to which Ernst is introducing is, and it seems to carry within it this transformative power indicated by Vishnu, that lets us see what´s behind the masks, and the true potential of every person and/or situation. It also helps us to find absurd solutions that are completely hidden to the world (since it´s the 8th house), like doing things backwards for to succeed - just as shamans have always done it.
It allows us to look beneath the hood.
It seems to be an X-ray view.
I feel the idea of having two kinds of astrology, one more mundane and one that shows what´s really in there, is a little too fantastic. But having my Ju/Ke and Mars in the natural 8th Vishnu it´s hard not to see it that way.
Staffan
"I feel the idea of having two kinds of astrology, one more mundane and one that shows what´s really in there, is a little too fantastic."
I don't understand what you mean by "too fantastic". Could you clarify?
Also, consider the astronomical reasoning that Ernst gives for the Adityas. We could easily apply that astronomical reasoning to the zodiac, and say that Leo should begin on the summer solstice, and thus align everything in the two halves.
It does seem like our world and the way it is now is a bit skewed, a bit off, so maybe we could that not-lining up of the traditional tropical zodiac as being in accord with the not-lining up of the way the world is now.
So it seems like what you are saying could be accurate in that sense. But then, I personally would like the world to not be skewed and to line up appropriately, so we could see using the Adityas as helping to do that.
@josh "A little too fantastic", I mean, maybe it´s hoping for too much, to believe that the tropical and the new system may be complementary and may work fine together.
And yes, Ernst´s astronimical reasoning is the foundation for the change of course, so we could and probably should apply it to the normal rasis too.
In that case Libra would be the 8th. That should tell us something about what kind of astrology we could expect. What focus it would have.
As for the world being skewed etc, I think that the idea of rationality as a way of gaining deep understanding of the world is both very young and quite naive. As a matter of fact, Russel, Goedel, Wittgenstein and Turing through rational reasoning managed to prove that any logical or mathematical system has inherent flaws that makes it inconsistent. So we are left with twisted language, as wise men and women have been for thousands of years.
Staffan
Libra wouldn't be the 8th sign. We would just move the equinox and Aries would still be the first sign, so then Libra would still be the 7th sign.
What I meant is that the zodiac being skewed could be a reflection of the world being skewed and vice-versa. Realigning the zodiac, specifically using the Adityas, could help realign the world.
@josh Yeah, my comment was an answer to the idea of a not skewed world, but I guess it has always been and will always be. Less so in the future, if the idea of the yugas is correct.
What you say about the timing I don´t understand, though. If the first sign is still Aries, what has changed?
Staffan
Currently, the summer solstice starts at Cancer. If we moved the summer to solstice to start at Leo, then the astronomy would line up with the zodiac in the same way it lines up with the Adityas. So Aries would still be the first sign, but start 30 degrees before the equinox; and thus Libra would still be the 7th sign. Then you would have Dhata=Aries, not Dhata=Pisces. Keeping everything the same, just move the equinox; or you could think of it has moving each sign backward 30 degrees.
@josh OK, so a general name swop, and then we would read pisces as aries etc. Someone should try it, I guess. It doesn´t sound right to me, but I may be wrong. Reading the adityas from those places is definitely something else, since they all represent something completely different as compared to each zodiac sign. Although it may be that each zodiac sign shares a general theme with it´s corresponding theme, possibly expressed in an opposite way as discussed on the forum before.
Staffan
@josh So the 8th house would indeed be Libra, just under the name of Scorpio. We would now interpret Libra as Scorpio and expect it to give Scorpio results.
Staffan
No that's not what I'm saying. You're attached to Aries being at spring equinox. I'm just saying it would start 30 degrees before the spring equinox. You wouldn't then read Aries as Pisces, you would read Aries as Aries, Libra as Libra. They would be in a different part of space than you are used to.
What I'm suggesting is to just forget Aries as starting at the spring equinox all together and start it 30 degrees before. It is just an idea.
@josh Yeah, "current pisces" would be read as Aries. The discussion gets confused since each name now refer to two different things.
The lordships would change, of course.
As said: someone would try it, but for now I think the adityas is the right way to go, and keep the tropical system as it is. At least that´s my feeling.
Staffan