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Why do we have a separate Sun Card?  

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Leela
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Why do we need (or have) a separate Sun Card?
I get that the Birth Card is "time for that card"- but isn't that really the Sun? I.e. if you're born on that day- it's time for you to be that card, or give birth to that card, isn't it?
 
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Ernst Wilhelm
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Yes, that seems to make sense. I actually tested that but it just never worked out well. 

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Manisha
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Just some thoughts.....

When I started with the cards system, I always thought that even though the Sun is the ruler of our solar system, he is a tiny part within the universe. The Sun being the planet of inspiration and fire, and the first born in our solar system, is the right channel, but even he is caught up in his own Avasthas. As we work our way towards Rahu, we learn to use all the planets properly, including the Sun.

We, when not caught up in this dream world, have more power than the sway that the planets hold over us and we can rise above it. I would think that the Birth Card denotes that power to use or misuse all our personal planets. I guess if our world was perfect, then the Sun card would have been unhindered and might have represented our Birth Card.

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Ernst Wilhelm
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yes, that is a great way to look at it. 

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Leela
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Thank you for the reply!

@manisha

I agree with what you say about the Sun, in that he is just as fallible as others, especially as we don't seem to become conscious in a one-shot manner...

Yea, I do understand that when the world becomes more perfect or more conscious (or even when an individual becomes more conscious), they'd be more the Birth Card, or rather every card would manifest MORE of itself- eventually reaching its full potential- or higher echoes of itself. 

But still- why would the power to use or misuse our planets and Cards be indicated by the Birth Card itself? Birth Cards don't really explain why some individuals are more conscious and aware than others, isn't it?... Some people are also more aware of their avasthas (even if they didn't/don't know the astrological name for it). 

It's possible (and observable) that someone with 3 diamonds Birth Card can be more conscious and aware than, say, a Queen diamonds Birth Card, and would thus have more power to use/misuse all the cards+planets rather than letting it play out fatalistically in an unconscious manner (irrespective of whether that fatalistic outcome is "good" or "bad"). Isn't an innate temperament/quality (or maybe just awareness) more responsible for this and the direction we go with our cards, though the cards+planets do indicate how easy or hard it may be (though it could be possible to derive that from the cards+planets itself, though seems less straightforward). Trump seems an example of someone who used his will-power a lot, though it's a hard card to manifest let alone come into prominence. 

I get that the way it is organised is that the Birth Card is like an overall theme or essence of the person (or day), which is composed of the rest of the cards which show us how we achieve the theme. I'm still not understanding why that shouldn't also be the Sun card itself (or Card 1)- because the content of the "Birth Card" isn't really giving information of a different level..

To give an analogy- it's not like we ever say, person A is a Gemini, with a Sun in Sagittarius and Moon in Taurus. am I misunderstanding something? 

Anyway, this question came to me, and I tried to evaluate mine and cards of some people I know (birth spread only, as of now, not checked predictive stuff) based on Ernst's teachings in the Foundation course- but with the Birth Card itself as Card 1- and it seemed to fall into place more easily. Am I the only one with this experience?
Anyway- not jumping to conclusions- 
I'll stay with it a bit more. I just thought I'd put this question out here as I was sure Ernst must have considered it before

 

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Manisha
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@ernst  Would we be able to determine level of consciousness through the higher Vargas? Had you mentioned that you would be doing a Vargas course in COT some time in the future?

@leela  Your topic about the Sun card had intrigued me, so I have been playing the devil’s advocate with my own understanding. I shifted my birth spread by one card using the Birth Card as the Sun card. Some of the cards in the rest of the spread felt right even in their shifted positions, but some didn’t. When you tried it, did you only substitute the Sun card or the entire spread? I didn’t use the planets for this purpose, nor any predictive stuff.

This is a really interesting topic. If you decide to investigate it further, I would love to hear your results. Maybe you are seeing something that I am not.

In the case of Trump, his path is that of K♦️ and his Sun card is A♠️. His Sun and Moon are in neutral Avasthas and Mars is delighted. Even though the other three planets are starved, they still have delight on them. His K♦️ is helped by the two 7’s and the two 9’s. With Saturn in Cancer, one can see that he has little empathy. Plus he has Rahu-Sun conjunction in the 11th. So, more or less, he has carte blanche to follow his path. That is what he has been doing - reinventing himself as an ego by using his intellect and increasing his value through his BC of 3♦️. How it is affecting the country, well, that’s another story, but with his 2♦️ Pluto card falling in his A♠️ he definitely does not care what others think.

With a Q♦️, her path is that of 7♠️ and the Sun card is 5❤️. So, for her, most of her energy is spent in dealing with life’s issues and finding out what works and what has survived. A bit more difficult work and something that will take a bit more time than the 3♦️, even if we consider similar Avasthas and planetary placements.

With Birth Cards, it is not about whether someone is more conscious or less conscious. It is about following the path. The dignities of the planets help or hinder being in alignment. Mixed Avasthas hinder more than having just one to deal with. Rahu-Ketu definitely throws roadblocks. Wandering off the path causes us pain and suffering which wakes us up gradually to finally be in alignment with the path, and thus be more useful.

No, we cannot say person A is a Gemini with Sun in Sagittarius and Moon in Taurus, but neither can we say that person A is Sagittarius or Taurus because then we are not really taking into account the rest of the planets. But we can say that person A shows indications of someone who has Sun in Sagittarius and Moon in Taurus.

Astrology takes into account that we are seeing the cosmos from the Earth’s point of view. If we do the same with the cards, then we can look at the Birth Card as a separate energy that is being projected onto Earth. The energy of that day has a job to do and that job is to help the planets do what they want to do in that particular combination through the Birth Card, whether mammal, flora, fauna, animate or inanimate.

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