Hello Ernst or Anyone,
What can be made of the implication that the upcoming afterlife realm and future incarnation are already decided for us if we take texts such as the Jaimini Sutras and Mantreswar's Phaladeepika literally?
So no amount of inner work and habit changes, etc., will keep us from reincarnating as a mushroom, or as a bat in the caves of the south side of Yamapuri? Even the hell realms? Or just being born here surrounded by enemies and an invalidating environment?
With Jaimini's method of determining afterlife, I had just assumed that that is our default inner astral nature and that the planets involved there represent the forces that influence us on that inner subtle level. So that if our physical body and waking identity were to be extinguished, those are the forces we have to contend with.
But having at least our very next future incarnation so predetermined means we are still being controlled by a much longer, heavier trajectory (perhaps forged by many actions going back to the distant past), than we would like to believe.
According to Mantreswar, I was in a much higher state and environment during the past life, which would explain why I am so hypersensitive and demoralized now. But it shows I am fated for even much worse than this in a future life! (It seem that these past 17 years have been nothing but a consecutive load of bad news about reality.)
P.S. I know we still have some free will in this lifetime. But if you are born already having the karma to go from human, in past and current life, to a tree in the next, then it seems that it would take a miracle transformation to change such a downward trajectory around if at all possible. And what can a tree do to earn enough merit to climb back to the human stage in a future life?
I guess there is a good reason the Buddhists and Hindus speak about what a rare and unlikely opportunity a human birth is. That it takes nearly forever to earn a human birth, but then it is so easy to waste.
I just knew I should have trusted the sense of urgency I felt when I was younger.
I don't want to go all the way back to being a sea cucumber!
Well, I haven’t read any of these books, but what’s wrong with becoming a tree? After going through so much suffering, wouldn’t it nice to have the universal energy heal us naturally? And the grounded-ness of the tree cannot be found in anything else. Wouldn’t it be so nice to let go of the ‘me’ and ‘mine’ for a while or for a few eons? Give shade, bear fruit, watch kids climb on the branches, have birds build their nest and rest themselves? I think it’s a great way to gain much merit. God will still shine through even in that state. Anyway, with all the deforestation that’s been going on, someone has to become a tree to replace those. LOL. One day, maybe thousands of years later, I would like to be a cloud and roam around freely offering shade to weary travellers. There will still be problems, and we will learn to overcome them. It is the way of life.
all these things have to be interpreted symbolically. Its teh same as the deity, if one is a Vishnu Devotee, that does not mean anything literally, many people will follow the symbolism of that who have never heard of Vishnu. Same with the after life. So to play with manisha's symbol of a tree, so in the after life you will be a tree. So that means a rooted being. Who grows in silence and shelters all who arrive at its feet. That can mean a lot of things depending on the consciousness of the being. I have not played around much with these techniques as they are not verifiable in a real way and there are so many things that need to be worked on with astrology that are verifiable. may things in books do not hold up that well, so you can't blindly follow what mantresvara says.
Thanks for addressing this and for the higher perspective.
I understand that much in these texts may best be interpreted symbolically, but what about the actual hell realms? Intense subjective suffering, or just dense realm of the asuras? Or both?
My understanding is that that can be worse than Yamapuri, which itself might include some pretty bad stuff. In the navamsha, Ketu in or dominating the 12th leads to the actual hell realms. (not moksha as in 12th from swamsha)
In my navamsha Ketu is 12th from lagna. In addition, it's lord is placed in Scorpio, the sign of hell, demons, and prison. ( Also, my AK is in Sco in the 12th of d1.)
And the d1 technique points to the next life as a bird, regardless of the realm. (Perhaps a bat in hell?) Maybe the ability to escape or fly above it all like a true avian. But the future bird life is indicated by bad dignity placement.
There are other, perhaps alternative, techniques given along side that in Phaladeepika that don't show something so bad. The D1's 12th lord exalted in a Capricorn navamsha with Venus points to a prosperous content sea cucumber or highly skilled water snake, maybe even near the shores of paradise
Taken all together maybe it means life as seagull or wetland-dwelling water bird near a prison island run by psychopaths.
Its hard to know what should be concrete and what should be symbolic in those texts.
I've really enjoyed your posts. I love the angles you take on and I find them really inspiring for the art and practice of astrology.
I would like to lightly challenge the perspective that it would be a "bad" thing to return as a sea cucumber.
If you have any thoughts in response to this I would love to hear them!
I don't believe we incarnate as life forms to "be" anything (aka identify as "ourselves"). If we do aim to "be" something/someone then we very easily activate the sins of "I" and "my". Of course this is a huge trap of life, especially human life. Maybe this is one of the key themes/challenges that brought us to incarnating into human lives this time around.
The broader goal is to transform our consciousness, not to be any one identity or ego-consciousness. This is at least my perspective on it.
Many of the teachers I follow don't advocate renunciation of human life but detachment and disentanglement from any identification with this current life, with this current body regardless of what is happening to the life, to the body. Everything is in service of the transformation of consciousness.
Some of the teachers I follow advocate sacrificing literally everything you could even imagine being/having/doing for the sake of transforming consciousness. Why not return as an animal too?
So from this logic, there would be a higher reasoning and sense for a next life as a sea cucumber, to bolster the process of transformation of consciousness. If that is indeed the path ahead, there must be some way that it serves that process, in my humble opinion. While I aim to further understand this subject, I can't say I've come across any particularly definitive or compelling approach on it yet. I'll update the thread if I do.
Animal life has informed our ancient traditions. Tai Chi, Yoga and other physical practices have animal-inspired position names for a reason. Animals are very strongly connected to Dharma and the energies of the universe. This is why they behave so strangely during eclipses and the hours/minutes before natural disasters. As humans we have many obstacles between ourselves and Dharma and the energies of the Universe (in Kaliyuga), again in my humble opinion. I know that animals are looked down upon now yet as far as the process of transforming consciousness goes, their path/lifestyle has many strengths we can learn from.
Also think about it this way, if we come back as a sea cucumbers, the biggest stress in our lives would be avoiding predators. There would be no jobs to work, bills and taxes to pay, etc. There are some upsides.
Thanks Cathy.
I would get back sooner but I can't control when I'm able to think clearly and focus enough to respond due to huge swings and fragmentation of energy, mind, and personality.
Anyway its the hell karakas that has be a bit disconcerted and disappointed, not so much the prospect of being a sea cucumber or a bird or snake. (Though I'm a tad disapointed about that too, however it may be like a vacation in a way.)
I like and agree with your angle about self, existence, and consciousness. At least this fragment does. But there are about 3 of me that need a separate account.
Night before last I received a download of insight about the coexistence of short-term fragments of evolution/learning that can coexist with, and continue along, longer-term cycles of karma and time. Even through the downward dips.
But last night was dominated by the fragment that is bound for hell. Its probably a good thing that I am already dealing with it now instead of later, though.
Might post more later,
Thanks,
S.