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Deeptadi Avastha of Jupiter/Venus and Finding a Good Counselor

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Francesca
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Hi Ernst,

Here's are some questions I asked myself last year while listening to the "Interpreting Avashtas" beginner's course.

In the section about Deeptadi Avasthas you mentioned that if someone has Jupiter in a good Deeptadi Avastha in a Varga, they will get wisdom from someone like a guru, astrologer, teacher, counselor related to that Varga. You said that if someone has Jupiter in a bad Deeptadi Avashta in a Varga, they shouldn't make decisions based on the counsel they get related to that Varga. How would you determine how and whether a person will find a good counselor or should seek counsel from someone related to the issues of that varga?

Here are my questions:

1) In "Graha Sutras" you write that both Jupiter and Venus are counselors. Jupiter is full of spiritual wisdom. Venus is full of worldly wisdom. Which type of counsel does an astrologer provide (Jupiterian or Venusian)?

2) Say a person had an issue regarding their siblings. In the d3, their Jupiter is dukhita, but Venus is deepta. Who should they seek counsel from?

3) Say a person had an issue regarding their siblings and in their d3, their Jupiter is deepta and their Venus dukhita. Who should they seek counsel from?

4) Do Venus and Jupiter represent different genders of counselors (men vs. women)?

5) Say a person had an issue regarding their sibilings and in their d3 both Jupiter AND Venus were dukhita. Should they not seek counsel from anyone? In that case, if they came to you as an astrologer and sought out counsel concerning a situation with their siblings and you knew they had bad karma for getting advice on issues regarding their siblings, wouldn't it be unethical to provide any counsel to them? Wouldn't the right (ethical) thing to do in this scenario to tell them that and not charge a lot of money for a service that will most likely not get them the right counsel or fulfillment?

6) If a person has both Venus and Jupiter in a bad Deeptadi Avastha in a chart, WHY do they have that bad karma? Does it mean that they have mistreated their teachers/counselors in the past and are therefore not getting good advice/wisdom this lifetime? Does this essentially point to someone who, within the context of the varga where both Jupiter and Venus are in a bad Deeptadi Avastha, will have to figure things out on their own?

Angela

 

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Mona
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 Mona
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I believe an astrologer can be both Jupiter and Venus, it depends on the type of counseling they provide and I wouldn’t necessarily associate gender to either of them (while Venus represents femininity, Mars represents masculinity so not sure a Venus/Jupiter would work as women/men). 
When it comes to your other questions, I don’t necessarily have the answers but if someone has a bad dignity in a specific Varga, I would also look at the D9 and D24 (I personally never draw definitive conclusions based on one factor only). If on the other hand the astrologer has good dignity, I don’t see any ethical problems, he can provide good counseling but it doesn’t mean the client will listen. 
I don’t think anyone can answer why specifically we have such and such karma, it’s a complex issue, an immense chain of events over multiple lifetimes from what I understand. But I may be wrong.

Ryan Kurzack was interviewed by Vic DiCara a couple years ago and touched on that topic. You can search it on YouTube, it’s very interesting on many levels. 

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Francesca
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@mona

Thank you so much taking the time to read my post and respond to it.

I wasn't sure since it seems that astrologers can provide wisdom and spiritual guidance (Jupiter), but they also are able to look at a chart and see meaning where there is none and potentially provide comfort to their clients (Venus).

Regarding the astrologer's birth chart and whether the client will listen, I do remember Ernst saying something similar in the course the question was about. He talked about the saying that when the student is ready, the right teacher will show up. Jupiter rules the truth, so Jupiter in a bad LA could mean the person isn't ready to hear the truth concerning the things of that Varga.

Thank you for recommending that interview! I searched for it and listened to it right away and really enjoyed it.

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Mona
 Mona
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@angela-w Great, am glad you enjoyed the interview! And, yes Venus has that connotation and it's also helpful for mundane affairs and psychology as well (which is similar to bringing comfort like you mentioned at the end of the day). I've actually stumbled upon another interview by Vic DiCara but of Donna Woodwell this time, where she talks about the fact that she selects clients she wants to work with, based on her specialty and if she feels she can help. She is also talking about her money back guarantee and that she doesn't hesitate to reimburse the client if she senses they don't listen. I thought it was very refreshing to listen to as she easily admits that she can't consult on everything and that sometimes she and her client are not a good match and it's ok too. It's around minute 15 if you want to check it out 😉

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Francesca
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@mona

I didn't know Venus had that connotation. I had always heard that Ketu ruled psychology. I can't wait to get deeper into Jaimini astrology and learn more about career indicators.

Thank you for recommending this other video as well. I'll have to look it up and listen to it! Her approach sounds really interesting. I've heard Ernst mention that a few of his students have chosen to specialize in one particular aspect of Astrology (for example, relationship compatibility) and do that exclusively. That's also something you talked about in response to my post on how to practice techniques.

Her approach makes a lot of sense to me. I use to work as a translator/interpreter and was a member of a few professional associations that had very clear ethical guidelines. Some of these revolved around only taking on the kind of work you know you'll be able to do well without putting anyone in harm's way. I personally would never accept any really technical assignments in the medical field because it has never been my field of expertise and mistranslations can have serious consequences. Instead, I would refer them to colleagues who did specialize in doing medical translations. So I guess I was wondering whether there were people who did something similar in Astrology. Of course, one of the issues that many of my colleagues had and I'm sure a lot of astrologers have as well is that you may not be in a position to turn away potential clients. And then there are people who really are just great at many things - true Renaissance men and women. Ultimately, I think what kind of work you are willing/able to offer is a personal choice. But I personally feel like I haven't heard professional ethics discussed a lot for Astrology (at least not on any of the channels and groups I have been in so far) and I also feel that it's a discussion/conversation worth having. I'm a bit of a hopeless idealist, so even though I'm nowhere near being able to offer any service, I do spend a lot of time thinking about what the right thing to do would be at some point in the future (for me, not trying to impose my views on anyone else) and how to best protect the interests of those seeking advice and the person providing the service. Anyway, I'm starting to ramble 🙂 .

I also find it interesting that she will turn away clients who aren't a good match. This is sort of an interesting parallel to counseling and therapy as well. I know that it can often take a while until you find the "right" therapist, as in one you are compatible with. This is why many therapists and social workers in my country will have a few sessions for the patient and the therapist to get to know each other and decide whether they "click". Of course, it would be interesting if they also had access to and knowledge of astrological compatibility to use as one piece of the puzzle when determining whether they'd be a good fit for each other.

Anyway, thank you so much for recommending these great videos, sharing your insightful thoughts and indulging me, Mona! Have a wonderful Sunday!

(I apologize for any spelling errors, grammar mistakes, etc. I'm not feeling 100 percent and expressing my thoughts clearly has been a bit of a challenge.)

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Mona
 Mona
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@angela-w I think the idea behind Venus and psychology is that, like Ernst quoted several times from I believe Yogananda is that you think you are doing spirituality when in fact you are doing psychology. Which is the mundane part of our life. That’s the way I interpret it. 
My background is in marketing and I believe in the power of niches and not so much in being a Jack of all trade. But it’s always hard even for someone like me who believe in it. There’s always a little voice saying “but, you will turn away a lot of people if you specialize in one area.” 🙂

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Amit Bhat
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Venus is a nurse who comforts the pain and helps a person relax and regenerate. Venus wants to look at the bigger picture because it has worldly wisdom. 

Jupiter is enlightening with the wisdom.

Having this combo is great for an astrologer.

Our life is like a novel and astrology is extremely vast. Specialization is good but being Jack of all trades is a big skill as well and very helpful. Now if a doctor is learning astrology, then specialization in medical astrology will be really helpful.

Being jack of all trades helps to know best things in lot of areas while specialization narrows down the focus.

So it depends on individual requirements and taste. Nothing is good or bad as such.

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Francesca
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@amit

Hi Amit,

Thank you for chiming in and adding those points!

I did know about Venus also being the nurse. I actually decided to start making a list last night. Every time I read that a planet is a karaka for something, I'm adding it to my personal "astrology dictionary" 😀 . I've actually been thinking that it might be fun to work on that with others, but I'm not sure whether anyone would be interested in making an astropedia with articles for each planet and then "professions", "food", etc.

I completely agree that it is totally up to personal taste and probably also to time 🙂 . I think it's important to be well-rounded and there's probably never going to be a shortage of material to study since Ernst keeps generously sharing his wisdom and findings with us!

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aditya
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Hi Angela, 

I think your question is really interesting and relevant to this course. I am not a professional astrologer and astrology is one of my interests, but I do have decent answers for your questions from experience. I would like to know Ernst's views too! but as he says in one of his videos, he's the Virgo type - (to the point) and not Gemini type 😀  

-Q. "Jupiter in a bad Deeptadi Avashta in a Varga, they shouldn't make decisions based on the counsel they get related to that Varga." -

 -Ans. In my experience, everyone gets counsel all the time, but the question is what do they listen to ? Mona mentioned the same point in her reply. For, Ju debilitated in a varga, they just don't listen to the good counsel they get in that varga. I have seen that sentence work in life. (Ernst is teaching how we can attempt to change those habits in this course) 

- Q - 2,3,5

-Ans. There are different ways to approach this, especially if you are not sure you can answer and you are put in a spot. The answer that is coming to me now is to fall to a more general advice. Yogananda in his Bhagwadgita translation says that actions should be motivated by a combination of "logic and true feeling". If we observe, even in our lives the things that we are fulfilled with have this nature. 

If someone is asking for advice and you aren't comfortable giving advice, you could ask them to contemplate on their actions in the area and if their actions are based on both logic and true feeling of what they want to experience.

It's not unethical as long as you are telling the truth and are confident. For all you know, you may have the karma to tell that to the person, and the person will realize much later in life but they needed to listen to that. Of-course you shouldn't charge a lot of money for that.

- Q - 6

This answer is also given in the same book. Karmas (good or bad) are created based on desire for fruits of an action. They include past lives and present life. They set the stage for actions you will take in this life. The actions are determined by the pre-natal and post-natal habits. (which we are trying to heal)

I don't think a bad deeptadi avastha Ju/Ve can right-away indicate someone who can't get good advice this life. It probably needs a lot more. I have observed the issue that people are just not open to listen when they have debilitated Ju/Ve. Other dignities below N will just take more time to understand and the DB avastha a lot more time. 

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Francesca
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@scoobydoo

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and do it in a little more detail. I really like your responses! You've given me a lot to think about and more to study/read, which I always like 🙂 . It really seems as though a lot of the concepts in Vedic astrology are easier to understand when also having knowledge of the context they are embedded in. So I feel like studying that will at some point become inevitable.

 

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