Hello my friends,
I believe it would be a fun, interesting & light-hearted way to test out the two different systems through a blind analysis, for anyone who is interested in participating. I will provide 4 charts for 4 different high-profile famous people, 2 females and 2 males.
I have not updated Kala, so all the charts will be presented with standard Rasis. I will keep the charts anonymous for a period of time (perhaps two weeks) for people to perform this analysis without any knowledge of who they are analysing. Then, I will reveal which famous person aligns with each chart for people to decide which of the analyses generally aligns more with the two systems.
Obviously, this is not meant to be a definitive ruling on which system is more accurate, but it can instead help people gain more clarity on which of the two systems they resonate with more. Here are the simple rules to understand.
1. There are 4 charts in total, with 2 charts for Females and 2 Charts for Males. There will be an Aditya Chart and a Tropical Chart for each Sex. So 1 Tropical and 1 Aditya for Females, 1 Tropical and 1 Aditya for Males.
2. Please provide a brief analysis for at least 2 charts in one sex category, this is because each male/female category has a Tropical and Aditya chart. You are more than welcome to analyze all 4 if you would like.
3. Please focus on Lajjitaadi Avasthas & Bhava Lords (Parashara's 144 Bhava Lords) in your analysis, since that is the most clear and straightforward difference between the two systems, so we can keep it clean and simple. You may also incorporate Rahu/Ketu if you believe it is necessary.
4. Have fun and don't take it too seriously.
I have not updated Kala, so all the charts will be presented with standard Rasis.
Btw, you don't need kala for Aditya chart. It's here: https://astrology-videos.com/aditya-calculator
I don't really know if the "which is which" is really a part of what you are testing (As it doesn't need to be?)... in which case giving Aditya chart may help some people think it through.
@ram No, the point is not to know which chart is the Aditya chart, so both need to look the same. Also, the analysis is focused on the bhava lords & lajjitaadi avasthas, which do not require the Adityas. This is because the Adityas are being calculated 30 degrees off from traditional Tropical by Ernst, so this is a little test to see if this new calculation by Ernst is more legitimate than traditional Tropical. It's more about chart calculation than the symbology of the Adityas.
I´m afraid I don´t get it though. If we don´t know who the person is, we have nothing to relate to. And if we also don´t know what zodiac we are using... The prediction will very much be hanging in the air, woun´t it?
Or I miss the point.
Thank you any way, the initiative is good.
Staffan
@staffan You use the techniques related to Lajjitaadi Avasthas and Bhava Lords; it's pretty straightforward. It's not a prediction; it's just a simple analysis of the person and their life. The two types of zodiac charts being used are the traditional Tropical chart and Ernst's Aditya chart.
Yes, it seems that you may have missed the point of the experiment.
I have noticed there have been some people who have had certain reservations about the new Aditya zodiac chart by providing examples of why Ernst's new chart calculation doesn't necessarily align with their life or the people they know. Ironically, you are one of those examples I am talking about, Staffan.
However, there have been other people (who strongly believe in the Aditya system already) who've chimed in and conveniently found ways to retroactively "fit" astrological explanations for why the Aditya chart actually DOES fit the person and the people they know. But that's not genuine astrological chart analysis; that's just using 20/20 hindsight.
So, without knowing which chart is Tropical or Aditya, and who the charts belong to, people now have to fully rely on the astrological techniques they've learned to properly read the charts. If Astrology is truly a science (I personally believe it's an art form), it shouldn't matter if the analysis is "hanging in the air".
Unfortunately, I am not too sure if people are up for this challenge. It is very easy to fit a chart analysis to a person when you already know who they are and what qualities you are looking for, but it's a lot more difficult when you go in blind.
“ It is very easy to fit a chart analysis to a person when you already know who they are and what qualities you are looking for, but it's a lot more difficult when you go in bLind”
For me it was not easy to fit a tropical even to people I know very, very well. Sidereal I rejected even before I found Ernst.
Nodes interpretations were in a lot of cases out of alignment with life path of a person (they painted a picture but It was a forced layer and a lot of times I had to use most Vargas to look at nodes to try to understand them).
Elements? Not matching. I started to use cards of truth for them (or even Chinese bazi when it was really important).
Jamini was a better fit than Parashara but still something didn’t click in a lot of cases (maybe it was out of alignment with rasi and numbers, we will see how good a fit it will become with Adityas number).
Maybe those who already proclaim that Adityas are better had the same or similar problems with parasharas use of zodiac.
@omanis The quote is in regards to the fact that if you already know what you're looking for in a chart (i.e, certain events, characteristics, personality traits, ect...), it is easy to find an astrological explanation for it in retrospect. There are countless yogas, vargas & astrological techniques available; you can almost always find something that aligns with what you're looking for in a particular horoscope. This is why you have successful Astrologers like Ernst Wilhelm (Adityas), K.N. Rao (Lahiri Sidereal) & Robert Hand (Tropical), all using different chart calculations but still producing accurate astrological predictions.
I mean, Ernst himself has now used Sidereal, Tropical, and Adityas to explain his OWN chart over the years, and they have all seemed to fit quite perfectly at the time. Which begs the question, does the chart calculation even matter? Is there a chart calculation that is "objectively" better than another if the same person can explain themselves using 3 different systems?
That's completely fair, I have come to realize that everyone has their own approach that is completely valid as long as it resonates with the Astrologer in question. There are also some people who are not completely resonating with the new Aditya's system, and I am one of those people. So the pendulum swings both ways my friend.
However, all of Ernst's videos on here are of him using personal examples with the Tropical chart, and that seemed to work very well for him; otherwise, he wouldn't be in the very prestigious position he is today.
Clearly, the Tropical system resonated enough with you to a certain degree (and all of the other Aditya believers), because if it didn't, you all wouldn't currently be paid subscribers. But it appears that you are confident in this new Aditya's system, so I invite you to test it out now by analyzing the charts above.
For those who strongly believe in the Tropical or Aditya system, this is a nice opportunity to see it actually tested out with as little bias as possible.
Yeah, probably a good idea. My approach isn´t very scientific though, and I´m also traveling in Perú right now, being worked on spiritually, so I´ll probably pass.
But again, a good idea and initiative!
What´s your thoughts on the adityas? I really like the new system but I am not ready to through away the tropical zodiac. Where would that leave us as astrologers, to begin with?
Staffan
@staffan I completely agree, I actually don't believe that Astrology is purely scientific, it's more of an art form like music, painting, dancing, and even psychology. Astrology's foundation is scientific as it's rooted in Astronomy (like all art forms). But it can't be objectively measured in a vacuum, just like how you can't say one piece of art is objectively better or more accurate than another. I used to be a musician, and I treat my work with Astrology like that.
I completely understand, my friend, I wish you well on your spiritual journey.
I personally believe that the Adityas are an interesting new system that is being personally developed by Ernst, almost like he's pioneering a new sub-genre of music (Astrological Punk). However, it doesn't have nearly as much testing, review, precedence, and established validity as the Tropical Zodiac. It's a system that doesn't appear to have been tested or analyzed by anyone but Ernst himself. This makes me extremely skeptical, because only Ernst is doing it, and there's barely any information out on it so far.
That doesn't necessarily mean that The Adityas isn't a valid system in and of itself; if there's anyone who's earned the benefit of the doubt, it's Mr. Wilhelm himself. However, I find it quite baffling that people are so eagerly ready to jump to a brand new system they barely know anything about and proclaim it as superior to the Tropical chart, which has been around for thousands of years. I would at least expect people to fully complete this new Adityas & Retinue Course before proclaiming it the "future of astrology," haha.
If I'm being honest, I've spent the last year devouring all of Ernst's videos on Lajjitaadi Avasthas, Rasis, Bhavas, Jaimini, Yogas, Shad Bala, and Rahu/Ketu. And in all of these videos, he very clearly uses personal examples to validate his teachings, and almost everything he said deeply resonated with what I've observed in my own life. But to then randomly turn around and essentially throw out the Tropical chart in favor of the Adityas after already throwing out the Sidereal in favor of the Tropical has left me somewhat disillusioned with Astrology.
@thealchemist it was quite bizarre for me as well, to witness how some people are so easily discarding interpretations that a month earlier they would have sworn by (and in many cases, charged clients for)... It's been an interesting occasion to observe human psychology - which is what I have always found fascinating, which is why I'm interested in Astrology to begin with 🙂
@nkan Exactly, I completely agree it is quite odd. I also find Astrology to be a fascinating tool to understand the psychology of a person, and I've followed Ernst because he is the absolute best at being able to seamlessly blend the two.
@thealchemist it's beautiful isn't it? I love the psychology but also the philosophy in Astrology, and the lovely thing about all this is - if it helps us get in touch with timeless wisdom about the world, how exactly we calculate things doesn't really matter. And yes, Ernst is the best at combining all these.
(9th house Sun here 🙂
@nkan It is very beautiful, and I also enjoy the philosophical aspects too. I am pretty much in agreement with you at this point. I don't believe the calculations matter nearly as much as the competence of the Astrologer and their ability to utilize their intuition; this is what I have learned. No question, he is the best I have ever seen, and I am grateful to be learning from him.
@thealchemist
The calculations are Ernst's creations-- but the mythology, symbolism is not.
@ram Yes the calculations are his creation. The inherent symbology and mythology of the Adityas is mostly not his creation yes, but he's even admitted there are many areas where he has needed to fill in the gaps or reorganize things for the Aditya mythology to work. However, the way Ernst is applying the mythology & symbology does appear to be his new creation.
This is my general observation of this system, and people may correct me where I am wrong.
But the Adityas do not have planetary lords in the mythology, that is Ernst's creation. The concept of planets being exalted and debilitated in Adityas is Ernst's creation. The Adityas having movable, fixed & dual modalities is not part of the mythology, but is also Ernst's creation. The same can be said for the elements and the Adityas along with the aspects and Shad Bala calculations.
He appears to be combing aspects of Parasara's Astrology (Yogas, Lajjitaadi Avasthas, Planetary Dignity, Elements etc...) with Jaimini's Astrology (Rasis Aspects, Rasi Symbology, Rasi Predictions ect...) and then overlaying the Aditya symbology while moving the Tropical Zodiac back 30 degrees. No one else in the world is doing anything close to that in any way, shape or form.
Again, this doesn't mean he's wrong (Ernst is a world class Astrologer), but the Adityas system is as much of Ernst's creation as The Cards of Truth.
@thealchemist Yes, I find a lot of meaning in the adityas, but just throwing out tropical... Exactly as you say. Therefore I´m struggling with this idea on two instruments of astrology working on two different levels; I hope I´m right but I may definitely be mistaken.
A huge identity crisis for all of us, indeed.
To me the CoT-system is a comfort zone, an alma mater, more than plain astrology, so maybe I feel safer there than what you might do in astrology. And that system was, to a degree, created by Ernst, so indeed: He deserves a chance, and even two.
Thanks for your wellwishes! Been to Perú? A lovely country, truly, with much of it´s traditions still preserved.
Staffan