When Ernst had twins, he used an atomic clock to calculate birth time. He also has said that our modern clocks are not really accurate. I am wondering how accurate modern clocks are (like digital clocks with smartphones, computers ect.)?
As I explore using the D60, it makes me wonder just how accurate astrology charts truly are with regards to birth time.
Hi Scott,
In my opinion, it’s not all about the accuracy of the clock to have an accurate D60.
After many analysis with rectification efforts of people with controversial time of births, including those with birth certificates, sone time in the past, I decided to let go of my ideals of finding a true time of birth including the Shastiamsa.
Here are some of the reasons:
1) The coordinates of the birth place should also be accurate and not taken as a city or town, etc.
2) Which moment is the actual time of birth? I am far from being super cool enough to research whether it could as well be the time when one of the swimmers makes it into the egg, or when the first heartbeat starts in the womb, or spiritually when the soul is thought to enter the baby in the womb, etc. But I am on the other hand, wondering whether the time of birth should be considered for the moment that the baby’s head is seen, or the cutting of the umbilical cord or the first cry, breath in, etc. Those are intriguing, to be honest.
3) How you create the chart is also important, as in the House system.
So, what I love the most is, when the person can provide as many exact dates* regarding the most of the cusps, that’s an incomparable joy of trying to fine-tune the cusps within the most of the 16 vargas. (That’s what I call Love)
(*mini note: the exact dates are a whole controversial topic too. For example, marriage, is it (date & time of) when one party proposes, or the time of accepting, or when they go the municipality to apply, or the religious ceremony, or when the families meet and they get engaged, or the wedding itself, etc.?)
During that time of the analysis, I don’t care whether it is entered the birth city in the chart settings or it is the time of the cut of the umbilical cord or the first breath of the baby. It is more important to feel fulfilled with all the cusps and the karakas to be in place and are triggered, and also with the Dasas.
In my opinion, each astrologer can work with different time of births, according to how they actually create the chart, and speak similar for the same person. That’s possible.
As long as the astrologer feels connected to the chart that s/he has fine-tuned, they can speak the truth as much as the person merits and convey what the person needs to get at that point in life.
My niece gave birth to her son last summer and we had all the clocks (digital ones not anything atomic like Mr. Wilhelm’s) ready, all serving for my curiosity in the science, and you know what? I believe it’s still not that accurate. I’m playing with his minutes and seconds as things have started happening seriously in his life so far.
This was all in my opinion. I respect your questioning, as I am (mostly an introvert) a never ending questioner myself.
Thank you
Zumrut
Ernst has said the time to take the 'birth time' of a newborn is the first breath which would almost always coincide with the first cry.
I brought up this topic because I started to really think how we calculate time in general and what the basis of that comes from. How accurate is the time we calculate compared to how it really is based off of. I should look this up...
@scott-m-19 This is what I recall from Ernst's classes. The first breath rule seems to hold across the other ancient and Abrahamic religions (if you only read the sacred texts). It seems that across the ancient world this was a common perspective.
I personally read a lot with D60 chart involvement and it seems like I am getting insights from it that deeply resonate with my clients, with some really surprising insights for me to communicate. So surprising I've been nervous every time. No matter how off the wall the D60 info is, my clients really resonate with it or it really blows their mind. Maybe we've been really lucky. It's becoming like the magic trick I do at the end of my readings.
Not to go way off the deep end but maybe the divine forces are ensuring we're getting somewhat accurate birth times? I'm sure the energy of giving birth itself generates some changes in the room. Traditionally in many cultures women gave birth in sacred spaces or with sacred processes.
Doesn't the D60 have like 3-4 minutes leeway? Am I remembering right?
I definitely think if you have a baby entering your life and community it would be really fun to use multiple clocks to track accuracy of birth time.
The D60 is sensitive to about a 2 minute window (roughly). Ernst has said about every 4-6 seconds a bhava cusp will change in one of the vargas.
@scott-m-19 So I use the D60 in a very particular way (I have a stats background). I don't use the super-time sensitive features like the Bhava Cusp points. Instead I establish a birth time range of four minutes before and after the given birth time, and I evaluate what is reliably the same in this range. I guess I can switch to a two minute range, I'll look into that. From that perspective I use the D60 in a broad brush way to intuitively describe the deeper patterns and undercurrents powering the person's current life and past lives.
I was nervous to start doing this so I provided a disclaimer and made it a short feature at the end of my readings. So far the clients are reporting back very interesting ways of relating to the D60 insights. Some of them mentioned recurring dreams, irrational fears and other such things. I feel the D60 is showing me some of their subconscious patterns. I think many of them found it validating, even if I had no idea how it related to their lives at first. In some cases it bright a liberating clarity to some very painful family issues.
I have been studying Hinduism and Vedic Traditions and Thought for some time now. I find that the evolution in my understanding of what karma is, is the most useful conceptual framework when examining the D60. I find it so amazing that everything I'm studying comes alive in an astrology reading!