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Gender and being abit on the queer side.

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(@uunarim)
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Hello All

I have been listening to ernst again, and he made the comment in a lesson that one's gender can actually be determined by astrology, can anyone go into where this is detailed at in the lessons? He Further details on how mercury is an important factor in determing ones disposition towards being attracted to the same sex given now none gendered it is, along with a weak sun also being a factor in that.

I ask this because I am very much on the "queer" side(I am straight... I think...), but I often have a sort of nature in me that often times thinks it should be a woman and I often identify with the female sex far more then the male sex, but at the same time something like a lesbian internally that just wants to be with the girls, even though I am a guy? I am really confused with myself, as historically I often gravitate towards being artistic, and being colorful, loving all things beautiful and particularly doing it with myself in various manners. This however has for decades often lead me to think I am possibly gay, but I never really could get with that, as I never bought into the notion that if one likes to wear a dress, do belly dance(yes I learned that) have an affinity for pink, grown hair, etc, that somehow they are automatically a homosexual. Therefor it appears that I have within myself a sort of societally conditioned regress I dont know what to do with, as a result I am often very confused in these matters. So its odd, I feel like I should be married to a man at times, but at the same time, men in the modern world are kind of... well to put it mildly, unless its lee pace, or gil-galad or whoever, I really cant seem to do that, especially the societal normalities of modern men.

My point is, where do I look to see where ones gender and orientation are in a chart to determine these things, or get insight? This is such an exasperating issue for me, and gods I would love to have real clarity, and more to the point, what to do with it.

I am at this point against what might be called learning all the yoga's in the world simply because everything is a yoga! However looking at what shri yoti star says about my chart, there a few things of interest that suggest all I have said to be quite real:

  • Mars in House 7 -USA chart
    If Mars/Mangal is in House/Bhava 7 the native will suffer on account of being of ill health. If Mangal is in the Bhava of a malefic, or is associated with a malefic or even if he is in his own sign (Mesha/Aries or Vrishchika/Scorpio), the native will lose his spouse. If Mangal is associated with a benefic, the spouse will die in the lifetime of the native and the latter will go away from his native land. If Mangal is in his sign of exaltation, or in the sign of a friend or in his own sign or is associated with a benefic or in the sign of a malefic, the native suffers loss of spouse. If this does not happen then the native will secretly develop sexual intimacy with women of loose character and indulge in sexual perversions like kissing the secret parts. He will also have unnatural intercourse with quadrupeds and will be fond of drinking liquor. If Mangal is aspected by Shani the native will touch with his mouth the secret organs of others. If Mangal is associated with Ketu, the native will not mind having sexual intercourse with a woman in menses. If Mangal is associated with an inimical planet the native will suffer loss of many spouses (one after another). He will be without potency and will be full of vanity. It will not be so if Mangal is aspected by a benefic.

Something of interest I have figured out is that if a chart is cast for places where I am deeply attracted too, the yogas of that said area begin to manifest.

  • Saturn in House 7 - relocated India chart
    If Saturn/Shani is in House/Bhava 7: The native will have a thin wife, he will be afflicted in his body and will indulge in prostitution. He will also be very sorrowful. If Shani is in his own sign or in his sign of exaltation the native will have intimacy with many women. The effect will be the same if Shani is in conjunction with Ketu. If Shani is associated with Mangal the native will kiss somebody's male organ with his mouth. If Shani is associated with Shukra, the native will kiss the female secret parts with his mouth and will have intimacy with women other than his wife.

 

So here is how all of this has manifested so far, I once wanted to be a something like a consort, and wanted to be that "flaming gay" type and be careered in that for the longest time, however my venus took over at the time and I got into transport industry. From what it seems, there is much internal fear of losing a spouse and hence not wanting to be married to begin with oddly, but at the same time be something akin to a male devadesi consort. 

So how has this more played out? It mostly has been internal because of fear of being ostracized and so forth. For instance, I am what is called a "furry", and since I dont have any real contact with animals on a consistent basis, this has more or less how coping with that has manifested itself as suggested with the above yoga. Typically this has played out being excessively indulged in fantasy for instance such as the eldar scrolls, or some particular game where one can play as either an elf in tandem with a feline race such as star wars as well. I dont know what it is about those two with me, but from what it seems, that is also another yoga playing out. So yes, between the societal regress, philistinism, its not played out well with me, and is a hard point of contempt, especially since this is where my mars of all planets is at.

I dont know how true this yoga is, but I am at a loss as to what to do with it because between my peculiarly spiritually artistic disposition and lack of an ability to go anywhere with it, I am here asking what you might suggest. 

BTW, mars is in taurus, and that rules animals and rules other things.

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Francesca
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(@francesca-2)
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I learned a technique to see this in one of the higher divisional charts past d60 from another teacher. You supposedly need a really accurate birth time to see this. I haven't tested it on enough charts yet to say that it works with absolute certainty. It seems hit and miss for me. Would you mind sharing your birth details?

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(@uunarim)
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@francesca-2 What chart past D60 do you need to see? I dont have kala and shri yoti star doesnt do higher than d60 and D108. Im curious what this is.

 

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Francesca
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@uunarim 

This teacher asked me not to publicly share the technique, so I won't post about it here.

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(@uunarim)
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@francesca-2 Alright, well how can I message you directly?

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Ernst Wilhelm
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Yes, the techniques that I have seen for determining gender require very accurate birth time, to the degree that I was never ever to test them and get results that made using the technique worthwhile - meaning, it was impossible to find enough charts with exact enough time to verify if the techniques were reliable. Maybe Francesca has something that works with a larger time window. BUt, you are the gender that you are, it's not something we ever have to predict if we can see a person, well, unless they have gender changed. 

homosexuality or confusion of gender is most commonly indicated by saturn aspecting the sun in a man's chart and saturn in or aspecting the 10th, or saturn in an angle. For a woman, its saturn aspecting the moon and saturn in or aspecting the 4th, or in an angle. In an angle is less less likely than in or aspecting the 10th or 4th. Other things may indicate it as well, but thats the most common. ALso, same gender planets in the 7th as the gender of the person can indicate attraction to the same gender. 

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(@uunarim)
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@ernst 

Well in my chart, saturn is in the 2nd house and is within 3 degrees of the sun which is in the 10th, and both are in the later half of the two signs. So that would give way to what your suggesting.

I also read that saturn is aspected by venus this way if venus is in a low degree and saturn in a high degree and venus is with the sun. Saturn as I recall is neuter, yes? Since mercury is also neuter, and that is combust and within less then 2 degres with the sun, would that also add to it?

Mars is a male planet and in my 7th of taurus, so I guess that explains that portion and my constant affinity for male animals, usually in an anthro inspired form.

Its also worth noting, and this is my personal belief, but the domiciles that encompass gender these days are nothing short of bad, or at least I cant for the life of me get with it. As a results I find myself gravitating towards what I have said, and often times just in a debacle as to how to move forward with my life living with this.

So in your experience, and given the circumstances of what we live in, this this more genuinely natal gender confusion? Or actual homosexuality? Or does gender confusion equate homosexuality? I cant seem to reconcile with this given all that I have said.

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Ernst Wilhelm
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@uunarim

Yes, Saturn in 10th as you say can contribute to that. No, venus aspecting saturn will not contribute at all. Saturn with venus can, but not venus aspecting saturn. 

yes, male planets in 7th will contribute, and also neuter planets with lagna lord or in lagna. 

 

But usually I see the square aspect of some type from saturn to sun and so based on what you have said about your chart i would not say you are truly homesexual, but also, thats not all of your chart either. 

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(@uunarim)
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@ernst theres not much else to say abou the rest, moon is in 5th pisces, jupiter and ketu are in cancer in 9th and before the sun if that says anything. In general that excessively expounds upon goodwill to be a default domicile, but wow is that annoying since it goes heavily agains the way the world works, and how I work, and as a result, it just gives way to all the bad stereotypes of something like queer and being a sucker and being the fool without a job, or excessively the victum of fools who cannot see beyond their own profiting and lack of forsight. I suppose that is just planetary war happening.

With respect to saturn again being in the 2nd and aspecting the sun in 10th, what is the meaning of saturn being with uranus and neptune? What is going on there? Could that add to the queer theory? Uranus is only 2 degrees from the sun at 18 degrees so I assume there is some aspecting there.

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Lorris
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@uunarim There is something I don't understand, or you are not using the same zodiac or different house system. Because you say you have Saturn in the 2nd, mars in Taurus, Jupiter and ketu in Cancer. Jupiter ketu in cancer with Mars in Taurus happened only in 1955. So if you have Jupiter ketu in cancer with Mars in Taurus your Saturn is in Scorpio in the 1st house not the 2nd. Also I don't see how it's possible that your Sun is the 10th because you would be Leo then, so your Mars can't be at the same time in Taurus.

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(@uunarim)
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@lorris I forgot to say that I use sidereal Lahiri, and its appears your using tropical. Thats how this works.

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Francesca
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@ernst Unfortunately, the technique I learned is for one of the higher divisional charts, so it's supposed to require a really accurate birth time. I haven't seen it working really well, but I'm keeping it in the back of my pocket to do more testing on it.

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(@revati2023)
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@ernst I have saturn as the lagna lord and ak in the lagna, I am a biological female with venus in the 7th in leo. Saturn rasi and planetary aspects my moon in the 3rd, not aspecting 4th or the 10th but opposites the 4th lord, and rasi aspects the 10th lord. Gender and attraction is very confusing to me. I'm sexually more attracted to women and barely attracted to men. However, I am romantically attracted to men and barely to women. There's attraction to some of the gay and lesbian as well. And gender feels to me is fluid, I sometimes fall on the asexual spectrum.

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(@ben-whipple)
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I don't identify as queer myself, but I have many friends who do and also living in an area with a lot of like minded folk. I don't know how old you are, but I am 24 and it seems much of my generation has questions around gender and sexuality. It is an issue that many of us wrestle with more then other generations. I encourage you to take what advice is useful here, but also to continue your own contemplations on the topic. I have found a lot of value in absorbing the many different gender and sexuality theories of my peers and also spending time alone in mediation to get a better feel for how I am outside of any other influence.

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(@rhiannon)
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@uunarim 

I don't know techniques for determining gender or homosexuality in chart. My perspective is that there would not be one set criteria stating that someone will be homo-sexual as there can be so much fluidity there across someone's whole lifetime. Especially nowadays, when in the U.S at least, there is a lot more "trying out" of different things across ones lifetime.  

As someone who is a Queer astrologer who has had a lot of Queer clients... my interest is more in the Avashtas. I see a lot of Avashtas for other-ness, outsider-ness, and even shame with Queer people. Being Queer is a life experience that often brings experiences of other-ness, being on the fringes of society, being shamed due to sexuality, or being different than one's family of origin. 

So some Avashtas that I think of are Venus conjunct the Sun (feeling you are incompatible with the world/others in some way). Sun in Saturn's signs. Venus in Leo.

Sun and Saturn shaming Venus tend to remind me of experiences people have of growing up Queer. Saturn starving Venus can be, "you had some value forced on you that wasn’t okay with you." So this could easily be heteronormative values that aren't true to your authentic nature that you may have been forced to comply with in society.   

Saturn shaming the Moon = the shame of "who we are". The shame involving Rahu... Ernst says, "a shame due to an inability to fit into the social order of the culture and/or family that they were born into."

I also have looked at these Avashtas through the lens of neurodivergent folks... and well anyone who is "othered" by society, really, which encompasses a whole lot of people for a whole lot of reasons.

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