Hi Ernst,
I recall you saying that the Sun rules the Indian race, and Mars rules the Native American race. Is that right?
My sense is that it's the opposite. The Sun rules constancy, and the Native American communication style is to share endlessly. Whereas Mars rules the eyes, and the Indians see things more clearly than any others (i.e. "jyotish").
Also, the Sun rules lying. She told you that He always tells you the truth. But that was a lie.
Also, She is a She. She told you that She is a He, but that was a lie, too.
She is consistent, though.
Except when She's not.
She also rules laughter, humor, things that are funny. That's why funny things are yellow. Like giraffes, bananas, Yello, Simpsons characters. Surprise makes you laugh, too.
Also, She wants me to tell you that she loves you so much, and you're doing such great work.
Sorry, I'm just the messenger.
@jeffk Don´t be sorry!
Mind to explain from what myth the he/she thing refers to?
I live in Mexico, I´m a Sun dancer..... I´m interested.
Staffan
@staffan The Sun is considered to be a masculine planet. The masculine planet. But She's feminine. Or, the part of Her that's communicating is feminine. She's the part of the masculine that's feminine.
I realize that's a contraction in terms, but She rules paradoxes.
@jeffk Don´t worry, I get it. I´m right in that phase right now. My 57th year on Earth in this lifetime.
Even seen myself in a feminine form in dreams lately. Rather: experienced myself as a woman.
Soundtrack of my life in this moment: ABBA. 🙂
Staffan
@jeffk I´ve got my AK Moon in the 4th house, Uttaraphalguni, Sun and Mercury in the 7th... Gemini ascendant for dual perception...
So clearly one of the main themes in my life.
Staffan
@staffan Say more about what you're seeing here? I feel like I'm not seeing what you're seeing, and would like to.
@jeffk If I can. Not sure what you mean by "here" though? The indications in my chart that I gave you, generally in the forum, or...?
Staffan
@staffan I mean "AK Moon in the 4th house, Uttaraphalguni, Sun and Mercury in the 7th."
@jeffk Yeah... AtmaKaraka Moon. Moon as a self factor. I "am" the Moon.
AK - "I" - the Moon in the 4th house, it´s most natural placement: in the feminine house. I´m "at home" in the feminine.
Vargottama Moon and Vargottama lagna, so the Moon is in the 4th in D9 as well.
The nakshatra, Uttaraphalguni: one of the two nakshatras represented by a bed or a hammock. Female nakshatra, ruled by no less than Dhaga, THE SUN AS BLISS.
It´s special power (shakti): "Giving prosperity through union or marriage"... So it´s very relationship oriented. Female, indeed.
Then the Sun and Mercury in the 7th house: strong focus on relationships. Sun is a self factor obviously, but so is Mercury, being my lagna lord.
Staffan
@staffan So how does that shape your relationships?
I have Mars AK in Aries rasi, Scorpio navamsa. So that's the "ride" I'm on. Good times.
@jeffk Haha, yeah, must be fun. Especially compared to my Aries: Sa/Ra. What house though?
I´ve been quite taken advantage of in relationships. Sun in the 7th: dominant partners and longlasting relationships. *sigh* My first relationship was extremely toxic and didn´t end well. The classical story about an insecure young man trying to man up marrying a several years older woman; I was a pushover, but managed to get out of it after a few years. Next relationship: we were on very different pages but worked very well together as parents. Two kids. I guess it´s fair to say that I couldn´t handle her, but the truth was also that I didn´t want to have to "handle" her. I broke up. She has Saturn/Rahu with Jupiter, so quite a handful. We still work surprisingly well as parents though.
Then now, my Lupita. A feminine (Ra/Mo in the Lagna) yet tough girl, King of Spades. But King of Spades are fun; as ruthless as they may be, as soft and funny are they (Jack of Hearts on the jack position, and that card repeated in EVERY year spread.)
I´m 56 and she´s 47. The rules of male and female are kind of turned on it´s head, as it should be in our age. We play our traditional roles and we are both comfortable in that, I wear the pants and she wears - literally - mostly skirts or dresses. But we are both beyond it in a way. She´s a medium and has a high level of consciousness. It´s a special kind of relationship. But for sure: Having the Sun in the 7th invites strong partners, and if I hadn´t had KH on the EC and KD on the Uranus card I would probably had been eaten alive as I was in my first marriage. Mercury in the 7th isn´t a hit neither; makes you very aware about everyone´s need, except for your own.
Uttaraphalguni nakshatra, how it works? Always looking for a way to blend the families together. Consciously or unconsciously. My first MIL was a professional illustrator; I became a crossword writer partly because of that and worked together with her for several years. Living in Lupita´s shared family house now, eating my MIL´s food every day. Being her private driver when she needs, etc...
Staffan
@staffan Thanks for the thorough share! Aries is my 4th, with the 3rd house cusp & Mars in it, so a Ruchaka here.
My polarity with my fiancee is similar - I have a male body but a feminine heart; she has a female body but a masculine heart. It's like having two relationships in one.
Yeah, with Sun in the 7th, you're going to attract dominant women but not necessarily want to be dominated by them. I have Saturn in the 7th, so I like to be dominated by them, but don't necessarily attract them. Same/same but different, as the Sun & Saturn always are.
@jeffk Listening to Pat Allen and Ernst Wilhelm lecturing about her ideas has helped me a lot to sort of feminine/masculine stuff. Like: there is an age for masculinity and one for feminity. It´s not so much women vs men, or shouldn´t be, but rather: women of a certain age vs men of a certain age. Understanding how men naturally grow into their female side, especially if they have taken a deep dive into their masculine side, and vice versa.
Staffan
@staffan Yeah, there's a million variations on that theme. But, y'know, the Sun ages things, while Saturn keeps things young. So younger women (Sun/Venus) with older men (Saturn/Venus) is kind of built into the system.
I have Venus in Capricorn (1st) with lord Saturn in the 7th, so my fiancee is 27 while I'm 51. But it just works. It's nuts.
@jeffk Sounds great, happy for both of you!
All but nuts... Ernst tells in some course that twice the age (M/F) is good, but that the ideal is the man being three times older than the woman. According to the old texts. That obviously depends on a cultural context in which the upbringing was a clan responsability and the young woman didn´t have to do more than have the baby and breasfeed it and not bother about anything around. But still.
Curious about your horoscope, do you mind to share?
My dates, in case you are interested: 13 december 1968, 15.47, Växjö, Kronobergs län, Sweden
(It´s completel allowed not wanting to share, obviously.)
Staffan
@staffan Three times, eh? I mean, today that's not really possible without breaking laws or societal norms. But I get the principle. And it explains why the dating world is such a catastrophe generally.
Of course, we're all here to study together! I'm 30 November 1973, 09:50am, San Francisco CA USA.
@jeffk Funny, I thought early this morning: "I have always never seen a spread of a 3H, I wonder how they function." And there it is...
You´ve got your 5th and 9th lord Venus in the lagna, that sounds genuinly fun. I mean, it must bring fun and also dharmic stuff into your life, right? (Sorry, 10th lord, but ruling the 9th cusp.)
Jack of Heart is your EC, that might to some degree explain why you prefer younger women, or at least had the faith to meet one. Innocence, youthfulness, joy. I have it on my Venus position, and as said, my wife has it on her Uranus position.
5C is my Birth Chart and your Mercury card; you have Ketu there. So in many ways you act as a 5C.
Staffan
@jeffk Care for a reading? I can do it here on the forum or I can send it to you. I want to get aboard the 3H spread; as said, I can´t remember having encountered a 3H yet.
Staffan
@staffan Yes, thank you! I haven't looked at my spread in some time, but I'll certainly tell you everything I can about how 3H has shown up for me. I'm at seofon@gmail.com
@staffan Thanks - well-read!
Yeah, I really lucked out with Venus in my Capricorn lagna. Though, with Jupiter/Moon there free of any house cusps, I do get lucky sometimes.
I am a pretty fun person - though it's even more accurate to say that I'm "deep" or "high" or both.
Yes, dharmic. But also karmic, with lagna smack in the middle of Capricorn.
And it is funny - I've tended to choose older women, but it was a younger woman that chose me. And the latter worked better.
What's funny about 5C is that is comes up in my partner's tarot readings all the time. Like 75% of the time. It's bizarre.
@jeffk Thanks for the trust! It will be interesting. As said - it´s a card that I don´t know very well, in it´s also going to be interesting from a personal view, since it´s my wife´s Sun card.
Our discussion about femininity/masculinity made me ponder on the fact that three squared is nine, and the red nines are the "go with the flow" cards per excellence. Meaning that 3 of Hearts is all about finding that connection to the highest purpose, manifested by Sun, and especially it´s connective, feminine side. No coincidence that you express that quest.
What you say about your GF/fiancé makes me wonder what card she might be...?
And, again relating to our previous discussion, it´s interesting that 5C is the card of always searching connection to the Sun. I mean, it´s nature image is the leaf that always looks for the best angle for to recieve the Sun light. Seemingly you share something deep and important in that. Sounds like a wonderful and deeply meaningful connection.
Staffan
@jeffk Or maybe it shows up in her readings during this period of her life because she´s in for some big change in her mindset. Or work/studies etc.
Staffan
@scathach The refinement I've been getting more recently is that both the Sun & Saturn are both masculine & feminine, just always the inverse of each other.
Oh, one more thing. She rules memory, but only because She rules forgetfulness, and multitasking. Spicyness spaciness. She has no idea where She is.
Also, a car accident is death (Saturn).prevented by a vehicle (Venus). So She rules those, in a way. She rules all.of the Saturn starvations.
My wife just introduced me to one of her favourite songs, "I don´t love you" by 10CC. In some way I think it wraps up the paradox that we are talking about, or at least illustrates it in a charming way.
The Sun has honeyyellow eyes. Symbolizing compassion. But before compassion there must be receptivity, since it´s the other person´s pain and grief that awakes our compassion and we must be receptive to it for to feel it. Receptivity is feminine.
One way of seeing it.
Staffan
@staffan Yeah, compassion is an interesting way to think of it. At the same time, it's compulsion: the yellow-eyed one is compelling you to do what they want you to do. So you could think of it as control, dominance - or as them receiving your openness, surrender. Kinky.
@staffan Yeah, totally. Good times. But, y'know, some of us intuit this stuff, and the BDSM world is dedicated to exploring it generally.
But in any case, women have received a lot of disapproval for their masculine qualities, so they've been suppressed generally for a long time, and we're only now collectively starting to play around with them.
Same with men's feminine qualities.
@jeffk The problem with BDSM, as I see it, is that it´s all built on wearing masks. Playing roles. No healing there. Rather it creates more problems than it solves.
Been there... Ended up in a twelvestep group.
As for the gender tsunami: It is what it is.
Staffan
@staffan Unfortunately that is usually the case, yes. I'm sorry you had that experience, and I've never gotten in that world myself, as any "world" is bound to be a mixed-bag messe. But the principles are sound, and I do happen to know some excellent people are utilizing the techniques for healing trauma.
But with gender, you're basically working with polarity, which is natural force. It's not personal. So it's just a matter of understanding how it works.
@jeffk Let me just say that my background and personal history is a little different. I´m Swedish, and in my country women have played important masculine roles for a long long time. As they have in all of Scandinavia. Even back in the icelandic sagas the respect for women stands out.
I´ve grown up in what´s probably the most feminist country in the world. And all I will say, not to upset the members of the forum, is: Watch their actions, don´t listen to their words. Another picture might reveal itself.
The fact that we generally are coming from a bad place doesn´t mean that the new is any better.
Staffan
@staffan Your maxim there is good advice for life in general. But the way I tend to look at it is that it's the person's state of consciousness that's bad, not the natural forces at work.
I believe that within the longest time-cycle, which is movement relative to galactic center, thing are incrementally getting better. But within that there are shorter time-cycles with their own ups & downs.
@jeffk I tend to get too envolved.
Trying to learn to be the observer that my cards suggest I should be:
Saturn card: Nine of Clubs, "stop craving perfection, let God run the world".
Rahu card: Nine of Spades: Accept solitude, embrace the emptiness. The hermit meditating and praying for humanity; no name, no title, no relationships. That´s what life wants from me.
(Ketu card: Two of Hearts; endless capacity for connection.)
Staffan
@staffan I find it helpful to remember that it's not that you shouldn't be involved - it's just that you should be able to be as involved as you want at any given time, which often is "not very."
9C as the Saturn card - Yes, stop choosing to do more than you truly want to do. Because, if you choose too much, then you won't want to do anything.
9S as the Rahu card - Really similar. Learning to pick appropriately in the physical/spiritual domain (however you define "you").
2H as the Ketu card - Yes, but connecting with others is becoming less compelling than connecting with "you."
@jeffk I appreciate that, thank you Jeff. It´s a more gentle vision of Saturn than how we often depicts him/her. And yes, 9C on the Saturn card is fundamentally about saving energy, not trying to play god.
Staffan
@staffan Well, all Saturn is ever trying to say is, "Not right now, maybe later. This (whatever "this" is) doesn't fit here, and if you try to jam it in here anyway you'll see why." We just make that a problem is an exciting variety of ways.