I am wanting to make sure I understand how a seemingly good card in the Pluto position works. From what I gathered from the classes:
- A good card in the Pluto position in the birth spread will build a person up by always giving them that good card until one day it stops working and therefore this helps destroy the ego. For instance, an 8 of Diamonds on Pluto would give someone the luck in life to always be in the right place at the right time to have success. Then one day this would just stop working? Or a 6 of Hearts on Pluto may give someone emotional fulfillment their whole life until one day this card gets destroyed and they do not get this?
- In the year spread can we can assume that if there is a good card on Pluto for that given year that the person will get this good thing? How can we tell if they will get the good thing from the card, or if Pluto will be using that card to take the good thing away and help destroy the ego?
Is there a way to tell what year the person will not be getting the good Pluto card that is in their birth spread?
Does anyone who has a good Pluto card have any stories to share about Pluto taking this thing away and giving your ego some hard knocks?
I have 7 of Hearts on my Pluto card so it is pretty easy to see it at work 🙂 But I am not sure how to predict when the good cards there will fail the person!
I have a four of Clubs there, a decently "good" card.
For me it works in two ways. First; I´m not allowed to be right. I´m a 5 of Clubs, so that´s natural. A 5 of Clubs is a person who has to change his or her complete vision about life, it´s like upgrading the software completely. So "being right" and knowing anything at all is a big no-no that costs us expensively, until we are done with the hole process (after a life-time or so). Then the very same card - 4 of Clubs - shows up as our Overlying card and final destination! But now it´s the upgraded version of the very same program that was obsolete...
The other way is a way that Ernst suggests in his Foundation course, that happens to be true in my case: With a 4 on the Pluto position life throws in a square thing, in the case of 4 of Clubs typically a longlasting job that never ends... making you humble. That has been exactly so for me; for over 20 years I´ve been working as a crossword editor (talking about squareness!) and have not been able to quit. Other examples of 5 of Clubs don´t tell the same story though, so I don´t know.
In a yearspread that good thing is probably going to elude them, I´d say.
Mattias
@meyes Thanks for this example. It makes a lot of sense. Your Pluto card and birth card work together really well. Of course you would never want to be stabilized and attached to your ideas or vision of life because the 5 of Clubs always wants to expand from those. I understand that energy well since it is my ecliptic card. Wow has life done a 180 numerous times, really keeps ya on your toes, eh? Lol-ing about the crosswords and the squares too!
@rhiannon It´s not that I don´t WANT to be attached to my ideas, I love to know everything for sure! But I´m not allowed! ????
Interesting to listen to your experience. My father is a 6 of Clubs too, what do you think about your Jupiter Card? Several narrow escapes from Death from my father, can you relate to that? I remember a female client who was a 6 of clubs; her husband died, so again: feeling the presence of death even though he doesn´t take you with him...
Mattias
@meyes Yes death and harm has been averted for me. I also have have not yet experienced grief from someone I love dying and I am 41. Probably is just around the corner though as i get older...
I also think this Jupiter card requires sacrifice for children, money and higher learning. My special needs child requires me to sacrifice a lot. My second child was a sacrifice for me in regards to physical health issues. I have had jobs that required physical toil and I have sacrificed enjoyments in other areas of life for pursuits of higher wisdom. Did your father have a lot of sacrifice for Jupitarian things?
@rhiannon I think he was a very unwilling father. Really put in the minimum effort, if any at all. Took no pride in being a father neither. Except for that, hm... As I say, several close-to-death experiences, and rather spectacular ones. (Like falling from a scaffold, age 17 or so, having his thigh penetrated by a metal bar with a 42 mm wing screw on it, barely missing his genitals...) Except for that... No problem with justice that I´ve hard about... I will have to ponder on it.
Oh, higher learning. He was a teacher, don´t think he was striving for much more 9 house things than that... Money... He was very restless in his work, yes, had to suffer to get it. Drudgery. But I don´t know if that´s a King of Spades indication exactly.
What about your 5 of Clubs experience? And your 3 of Diamond in the 11th position; I guess that it works a lot that mine on the 1st position: a knack for choosing in a feminine way (a healthy "no"), perfectionist, psychic ability?
And your Neptune card: the super power of rebirth and rebuilding your reality...?
Mattias
Well Ernst does say it is hard to sacrifice in the way that the Kings demand so perhaps your father was putting in the bare minimum but the King would have liked a larger sacrifice in order for him to progress through the cards in a healthy way... Just speculation since I do not know him. I know the Kings are hard and the King of Spades is phycological and physical sacrifice which is intense!
Regarding the 5 of Clubs as my ecliptic - I am still learning about how it works but it seems to shake up my entire world view and how I thought my life would go. One year that it was on my ecliptic card - my entire world view changed and I had a spiritual awakening. The career I thought I would do my entire life since 7 years old even shifted. Another year it was on my year card and 52 day period and I cut my mother out of my life but I had imagined she would be part of my life forever so I had to re-imagine my life path. It was on my ecliptic when my son was diagnosed with autism and I had always assumed I would have the “normal” mom experience So I am sure you see the theme… I am actually a bit scared when I see it in the year spreads in the future! I do have a theory though that it not only destroys my concepts and attachments to how I think life should/will be but also teaches me how to better direct and use my energy - as clubs are such an energetic suit.
3 of Diamonds on Uranus = Yes, psychic and perfectionist and very hard worker, always improving on something. Also I see it as giving me the ability to create on the etheric/astral plane. Take writing fiction novels for example, which I used to do. I created a world in the novel that only existed in the etheric/imaginative plane. It is not a 4 of diamonds concrete world. The book may be a 4 of diamonds material thing, but I didn’t make the book, the printing press did. I created the imaginative world which feels like a 3 of diamonds thing as it is not yet solid. I did a similar thing when I worked as a hypnotherapist because many of my clients began to enter the same worlds on the astral plane and I was the common link to that plane.
Ace of spades on Neptune - You can probably see how this pairs great with the 5 of clubs, ha ha!
Curious to know more about how these cards are working in your life?
@rhiannon That´s an impressive CV!
King of Spades on the Jupiter card... If my memory doesn´t fail me Ernst says something about the Six of Spades avoiding maturity, avoiding to truly become a King. On the other hand, if that´s the Jupiter card´s meaning, that´s how it supposed to be, right? But yes, I must agree that my father has not being very King-like, and a former friend of mine who´s also a 6 of Clubs also shows a childish egoistic side I´m not found about, I think. I have this idea about the Jupiter card that when it comes to women that card may manifest through them man - but you´re partner is a woman, right? Don´t know how it works then, depends on how you are geared I guess....
On the other hand, the Six of Clubs, if they allow themselves to mature (hey - 5 of clubs, Queen of Clubs!) grows into the 10 of Spades of experience, so it´s not as if they are cut off from maturity. It´s just seems to be more an evolution than a crisis-driven process. Thoughts about that?
I´m actually tempted to do a video in English about my 5 of Clubs experience and thoughts about my spread, but my channel is in Spanish; not sure what my suscriptors would think about that. But I guess I could publish it privately and let a smaller public have success through links.
Mattias
I have a 10 of Clubs on my Pluto card sending me to my ecliptic card which is a 6 of Clubs. So pretty good cards. I’ve never had issues finding work and/be busy so far. But the trick for me is not to identify with my work/profession. And I think this is how Pluto works: regardless of the card that’s in that position, if you identify with that thing Pluto will give you a hard time. For me it’s been through the fact that, at the end of the day, I’ve always been somewhat dissatisfied with work if I put too much of my ego identity into it. I’ve been in some difficult situations (one could say it was moral harassment) and in some very good ones (but at the end of the day, I experienced a lot of frustration). I also have Pluto in my 2nd house and Ketu in my 10th so identification with work for security purpose is one of my theme. And doing work that is aligned with my inspiration instead which is a challenge because I always have to “is this going to make money?” And “what will other people think?” Questions in the background. My 2-cent 🙂 Hope that helps.
@mona This tidbit about not identifying with the thing is really good advice when it is a "good" card. It is very easy to not want to identify with a bad card but a good card, not so much.
This will be good advice for clients - to give the guidance to be careful with identifying to strongly with that good thing so Pluto will be gentler hopefully when it comes around to teach some lessons!
I am not sure that a card stops working even if it is in the Pluto position. Maybe a better way to put it would be that anything in the ego that stops that card from coming into effect, gets destroyed.
One year, I had the Queen of Diamonds on my Pluto card. That year was the hardest one because my life went through many changes and I had to start redefining myself.
The year after that I had the King of Diamonds as my Pluto card, and even though it was still tough, it helped with getting rid of a whole heap of old ways of thinking.
2019 was a year of having a 9 of Spades on the Pluto card, and it was an end to the self-imposed isolation that I had put myself in to deal with watching my life crumbling around me. But I also got to redefine the 9 of Spades, which is my natal Ecliptic card.
This year I have 2 of Diamonds as my Pluto card, and it has been a year of ‘coming together’ with new skills. As my mindset has changed, I have learned new things. But it has also been a case of temporarily putting them away because of my mindset. But I am aware of my mindset and so it is easy to go back to them and build up on it, instead of walking away frustrated and angry and upset at the whole world ????
As the year comes to an end, it might also bring an end to whatever I have been doing, and the people I have been around. But, Pluto being a non-visible transformative planet, has already transformed a lot of my beliefs in a hidden way.
I have King of Diamonds as my natal Pluto card. Through many changes, I have developed many skills, which I downplay, and I am realizing that it is the wrong attitude. Even though I am not attached to money, I have realised that I do have ‘wrong’ beliefs about it. Now I am trying to overcome these learned behaviors, and I can see how the way my life has transpired, points to the need for destroying those beliefs.
So, would it be right to say if a card is good or bad? A supposedly ‘good’ card might be used in a wrong way, or have a ‘wrong’ belief attached to it. And also, it won’t affect everything in the chart, unless it is affecting everything.
I haven’t been thinking about it, but I wonder if the condition of the Moon, Mercury and Venus, will tell how that year will go.
Yes, I admit, I was being a bit lazy calling them good and bad cards when they really should be called odd and even cards - free from good or bad judgement.
Thank you for all the examples from your life. I especially enjoy examples of Kings as I find their effects the hardest to interpret. 9 of Spades sounds like an excellent card to have on Pluto in a year spread. Do you feel the Two of Diamonds on the Pluto card also brought new financial or material opportunities?
I am about to go into a 52 day period of King of Diamonds on Venus. I like your examples around overcoming your beliefs around money. I will see if anything comes up for me that is similar. I am planning to give away a lot of valuables during this time that I no longer need.
they really should be called odd and even cards
Ah, ok, now I understand what you were trying to find out.
The year before the Queen of Diamonds on Pluto year, I had a 4 of Hearts. That card got 'destroyed', because I was fighting against it, and hence felt (that word is important!) like I had a worse time that year and the year after. Perhaps, looking at it with the 7-year progression in mind helps see the theme at play, as I had a 10 of Hearts and a 10 of Diamonds covering both these years. It was taking away everything that I valued and had invested many years in time and energy, and I was having difficulty allowing things to end, and so made it worse for myself. In hindsight (isn't that a wonderful thing? ????), I can see what Pluto had been trying to teach me for many years, but I couldn't see it.
With 2 of Diamonds this year, no, it did not bring any financial or material opportunities, but then the year is not over yet. What it gave me was space to rethink about value and worth with regards to many things. From another perspective, it gave me many things that I found worthwhile or valuable in intangible ways, and not money-wise.
@manisha Wow the 10 of hearts/10 of diamonds theme with the 4 of hearts is a great example. It shows how much harder it is if we struggle against Pluto! It is wonderful that you can see afterwards that you could see the lesson. If it comes up again you will know what to do perhaps.
Thank you for illuminating more on the two of diamonds and that the value is perhaps not material opportunities. Perhaps this is because the diamonds do not get concrete till the 4 and so the two gave you things that were valuable in intangible ways.
I was thinking a bit more about how the year had progressed. I ‘came together’ with people who shared their resources with me in many different ways.
So even though it was a Pluto card of 2 of Diamonds, and I have been stranded abroad during this pandemic, this year has turned out quite well.
I like the way you phrased it:
Maybe a better way to put it would be that anything in the ego that stops that card from coming into effect, gets destroyed.
Tying that to the outer planets class, it’s like the Pluto card is the opposite sign that Pluto is in. It’s taking me time to make sense out of that Pluto card even though I had no issues understanding it in my chart. My Pluto card is 10 of Clubs and I know am supposed to and love to be busy and get things done (Jack Club BC and 6C ecliptic). But, as I mentioned in previous posts, any security attachment to the work I do ends up in dissatisfaction and frustration. How can we see what those security needs are? In my case, I find that Pluto in 2nd house in Libra show that well. With COT, would the card/cups Pluto is in reveal that as well?
Yes, it seems that Pluto is there to free us to any attachment to anything. With my natal King of Diamonds, it seems like I am not supposed to attach myself to anything concrete at all. It is interesting how even no belief is a belief!
Pluto is a generational planet, staying in one sign for many years, thus shaking everything to do with that sign and cusp. The card each year and in the 7-year spread would reveal the underlying theme.
Well, this is what I am seeing as I map out my past.
There was one year where I had the 8 of Diamonds on my Pluto card. I got a job that year with a boss that gave me a really hard time. It was just a 6-month contract that didn't get renewed (which I'm grateful for now), but It really took a toll on my mental health. Due to sheer luck, that happened to be the year that the government implemented full-time pay for contract workers (which subsequently got axed when the new leader got voted in). So I ended up making alot of money that year.
@kam hmmm interesting twist of events. So the 8 of diamonds came through after all in the end...
@rhiannon Yes, it was very random. I had no idea that the labour laws had changed or that I was eligible to benefit until I was informed by my co-worker. I was too preoccupied with being miserable and trying to survive ????
Btw, this manifested 6 months before my birthday, So halfway through that year.
How did the experience change you? Did you draw boundaries with regards to certain things?
@manisha It definitely changed the way I think about my career, status, and earning an income- but the changes happened gradually. Initially, there was a huge sense of failure and shame, which is a reoccurring theme in my life due to having a shamed Venus.
It happened at a time where I was trying to go down a specific career path to prove to others around me and myself that I was capable, intelligent, and worthy. (Sun + Ketu shaming Venus). I was also running a 9 of Clubs in my 7-year spread that year, followed by a 9 of Spades the next year. The 9 of Spades was a cathartic period of letting expectations of myself fall away, where I essentially withdrew from society and just focused on studying all things esoteric, and astrology like mad.
P.S- The money I ended up earning through the 8 of Diamonds windfall is what gave me the financial leeway to do this.