Dear Ernst and friends.
From recording a video about my own BC, 5 of Clubs, I´ve come to a deeper understanding of the Jupiter position. I have a couple of questions about that.
Are there any indications of Jupiter being related to the maya, the illusion?
For my experience as a 5 of Club, going through the hardships of 5 of Spades on the 5th position is a little like Harry Potter walking through a ghost. It´s there, and it´s not. You feel the cold, but it doesn´t really get to you in a deeper way.
That gave me the thought that maybe Jupiter has something to do with - is in charge of? - this world´s illusion?
We relate humor to Jupiter, that´s alined with the theme I guess. He´s a gas giant, so he´s not as concrete and manifest as one would think. But except for that? It´s double character of planet and star; should we take that as a sign of some trickery going on?
Is the 5th position a trick position, so that it´s not only what is averted, but also what´s seemingly more present than other things? What me most believe our life is full even, perhaps? The life of 5 of Clubs is so full of 5 of Spades things! And yet they are not affecting us as seriously as they seemingly should.
Best regards
Mattias
I would think the 5 of Spades in the 5th position would offer so much room for growth and changing your environment so you can live and thrive better. I am currently in a 52 day period of 5 of Hearts on Jupiter and there has been so much growth in my relationships. It has been uncomfortable and hard but really huge leaps in awareness have been possible.
Oh yes, it really pushes you into change, it doesn´t give you any option. But it´s more like being in a room full of ghosts, by the end of the day not so many of all what seemingly threats you come true. Narrow escapes... In what can only be described as a magic ways, I think.
I compare 5 of Clubs to a hermit crab that has to change his shell - more inwardly though, even if most of us end up in foreign countries it seems. And since noone wants to do that voluntarily, life came up with several ways of obliging us... Scaring the hell out of us with 5 of Spades, not letting relations work out (7H on the Mars card), not letting us have much fulfillment from the material world (7D on the Mercury card) etc...
To reach the Ketu goal 2H - "I can love everything I lay my eyes on" - we have to climb two huge mountains, two divine nines. 9C in the Saturn position, "stop having illusions about this world" and 9S in the Rahu position - "Give up your identity." If we had a pleasant place where to rest we just wouldn´t do it.
But the Moon card is really nice though, Ace of Spades; it gives as many many chances to be born again.
Mattias
I would say every planet has a trickster side. Jupiter can be over-optimism and the denial of negative qualities
Also, the more I learn about Jupiter, the more I find it very practical. In yogic numerology, the number 5 is the physical body (5 senses, 5 limbs) so it's very concrete, living in the physical world, knowing right from wrong. That is also why, they say 5 represents sacrifices (the physical body being limited to time and space, what we do physically requires an expense of time and space). It's also the archetype of the teacher, pretty much like Jupiter. Those are my notes from the outer planets class which took my level of understanding of Jupiter to a deeper level I think and that I find resonates well with that practical aspect of that planet (even though Venus is where we take it one step further and choose based on that right/wrong understanding)
Jupiter comes after Mercury, it is the guru/teacher of that path of right/wrong. Everything is an aspect of Vishnu (Mercury) but some aspects are more or less enjoyable. Jupiter gives us our moral sense, true right, and wrong so we don’t cause harm to others so that life is fair and enjoyable. Some aspects of God are desirable and some are not and hopefully, we will have the good fortune to escape those things. It is at that level, the material world splits. At the level of Vishnu, there is no difference between the rapist or the masseuse. Vast difference at Jupiter
@mona Yeah... What I´m trying to wrap my head around in this moment is the illusory effect of the 5th card. Because it´s something averted, for sure - but it also tends to be something that we have a lot of in our life; it´s just that it´s not "real", like in my case (5 of Clubs) it´s like running through a rain of bullets (5 of Spades), not realizing that they are just holograms...
In your case that would have something to do with Jack of Diamonds; you are a salesperson, you identify with being a salesperson, a smooth talker, a person who uses her charm a lot - until you realize that no, it´s a fake you, it´s not who you really are, in some way you have a capacity to go far beyond that. Does that resonate with you? I know you used to be sales person and that it didn´t satisfy you, even though you identified with the role, right?
Mattias
@meyes I can’t say I identify with being a salesperson, I tend to hate selling actually though I can be really good at promoting others if I like/believe in their work. So in that sense, I can be a good salesperson. I didn’t like real estate because I didn’t like the aesthetics of 99.99% of the houses LOL (I have 3 planets in Chittra Nakshatras so hard for me to compromise on aesthetics and design). But give me a modern designer house or a cool art gallery and I think I can certainly sell:) Am also pretty good at seeing the connections between people, I’ve put people in contact in the past that led to a job offer, a client/provider relationship for example.
So, I guess, my first reaction is that I don’t identify with being a salesperson but in the right environment I think I could be naturally good at it. In the wrong environment, that you could qualify as “fake”, I totally suck ???? and there’s no amount of sales training, pep talks that are going to help me. I’ve tried and it made it worse ... So you could say that what was averted was my ability to sale in those areas that were not “me” so that I could find what is more “me”. Jupiter is not going to give you what you want (like the song) but what you need to come to that realization.
Like @Rhiannon mentioned, for you, it’s likely about your environment. Or life situations that you are trying to make work for you but don’t because it’s not the right thing for you. You either realize it the hard way or, if you are lucky, the easy “averted” Jupiter way (even if you think that this is what you wanted). For example, in my case, maybe it would have been better I never got that real estate job? Or, ok I get the job, and it doesn’t fully work out but I quickly realize it so I exit gracefully, not wasting 10+ years in something that is not for me (the hard way).
At the end of the day, as per the Lajjitaadi Avasthas class, Jupiter represents the goodness, the spark of inspiration flowing through you. So, whatever is not in alignment with that, Jupiter will avert if you let him do his job?
Maybe we should not equate averted = a negative thing, but the contrary?
@mona Bad things, like 5 of Spades, is good to have averted. Good things are also good to avert - from an evolutionary point of view, of course. Even if it sucks.
Mattias
@mona Another thought Mona: Is your husband a Jack of Diamonds? Except for being a businessman, right? To my experience the Jupiter card often shows us something about the husband in a woman´s spread, like my ex having my BC as her 5th card. I´ve seen it a little to often to believe it´s share coincidence. Maybe?
Mattias
@meyes Hubby's a 3 of Diamonds with a JH in 5th position and KD in the ecliptic. Definitely young at heart but focused on financial security, especially for his family, being a provider. Very intuitive as well but almost without realizing it. He saw a ghost once and tells you the story as he tells you he just met with a friend over coffee, like it's no big deal (and doesn't try to understand why or dig deeper into it). Our son is 8D, very focused on making money (he found out Starbucks hires at 14 years old and he can't wait to work there ???? )
@mona Wonderful attitude there! I´m staying with lovely people right now, every thought is right - but cut off from another reality. I like you husband thinks that it´s no big deal, just different doors we are walking in an and out through.
Anyway, there we go, right? Jack of Diamonds is a personification of 3 of Diamonds, so I would say that my prediction comes true, your Jupiter card is an indication for your hubby.
These 8D... Try to stop them - ha! My grandmother was one, a very powerful, hardworking peasant woman. (I loved her dearly.)
Mattias
@meyes Yes, I meant to write about it (3D & JD connection) and then it slipped my mind. 8D... am definitely enjoying seeing my son grow up. Ernst mentioned these people really take off when they find what's right for you. Like a plant in the right soil, amount of water and sunlight, it grows. I think AstroLada is an 8D, first astrology YT video she makes and boom, it took off, like she was where she was supposed to be. I always keep that in mind with my kid, never pushing him to do extra curricular activities that he doesn't like (plus, I wouldn't be able to really ????).
In my ex´s spread - she´s a King of Spades - the Jupiter card is 5 of Clubs, my Birth Card. So for that role life chose me, to represent that (false) presence in her life; because of me she left Chile for Mexico; for years I was urging her to change; fair enough since she didn´t want to work and I needed help with that responsability. She really didn´t want to, and kind of, in the end, didn´t have to. The stress was there, but some way she managed to avoid most of it.
Her Saturn card is Ace of Spades - "You are not here to discover new versions of yourself, just be who you are!" (King of Spades - a Death incarnation). Rahu position: Learn to detach from relationships; Death incarnated must be able to be totally independent from emotional needs of that type. (Of course she wants it and shall have it, but not from a needy place.) Ketu card, reward: 7 of Diamonds. "You don´t need much from this world."
I love the Cards of Truth!
Mattias
@meyes yes, it’s great stuff. Am gradually adding it back on now that I know where my Astro focus is. Adds depth to outer planets and Rahu/Ketu and so so good to get the flavor/energy of the years ahead.
@mona I was telling my ex this just a couple of hours ago and she was so thankful, she really wants to bond to a new person and I tell her: "You can have it, but it´s going to work better if you let it go." Like: "Don´t grab the soup, hold it loosely." And also: "You are not supposed to reinvent your self, be who you are."
"Remember that you are incarnating Death..." (She knows what I mean.) Having said that, I saw a raven showing up in a tree close to the house. Haven´t seen any around before.
Many omens lately. While recording the video on my own card a rooster was constantly calling. "You surely gives the best picture of yourself!" And when I spoke about my Venus card: the rooster showed up again, this time with his hens...
Mattias
@mona so it is Mercury that doesn't discern or judge between the rapist or the masseuse? But Jupiter does as he has morals?
@rhiannon Yes, that's how I understand it. Because Mercury is a manifesting planet so it manifests God as everything in the world. It's the giver, the receiver, and the gift at the same time:
Vishnu is meditating as the meditator, raping as the rapist, we need Jupiter to distinguish proper/improper.
That also explains why Mercury is considered a neutral planet. But Jupiter is more about positivity and distinguishes between right and wrong.
It's coming from the fact that occult sciences hold that there are only 4 things. Ernst cites the Tao Te Ching: “The one became the two, the two became the three and the three became all things.” Which I'm still wrapping my head around:
The One is the Creative Spirit, the Two is the reflection of the Creative Spirit and the Three is the interaction of the Creative Spirit with His reflection. The Fourth thing is all created things, the many individualized things in creation, which are nothing but the first three things manifesting on another level.
@mona wow what a new level of understanding this is. The only thing I find a bit confusing is that Ernst has said a good 4th Mercury card follows the "rules". I assume this means the rules of society. And he uses some examples of serial killers with bad Mercury cards as people who didn't follow the rules. But if Mercury was nuetral and the rapist was the same as the massuese than what would he care of rules and if people followed them! Jupiter would be the one discerning if the rules were right or wrong and ok to not follow or to follow.
@rhiannon From a practical standpoint, this is definitely a mind twister 😉 I think that neutrality helps Mercury do its job. Like Sherlock Holmes, he can't be biased as to who the criminal is. He has to receive/perceive information and analyze the facts as they are without preconceived ideas. I think that when it comes to the rules, these are neutral in the sense that they apply to everyone without discrimination or judgment about the person (well, ideally!) so I find that Mercury's neutrality makes sense there too.
@mona Ah yes, he is neutral that the rules apply to everyone in the same way but he doesn't "make" the rules so he doesn't find it necessary to question or judge said rules as good or bad 🙂
Is there something to the idea about Jupiter being a star that is only (mostly) reflecting the Sun, but has this hidden potential to... shine, to be a God?
Don´t ask me what I´m trying to thing, this is highly speculative.
Mattias