Reading Etiquette
 
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Reading Etiquette

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tuyetv
Posts: 341
(@tuyetv)
Honorable Member
Joined: 2 years ago

with celebrities their information is just out there. Being celebrities they  give up a big part of their privacy.  We often use their charts to practice our astrology techniques. I am more concern with the normal everyday folks here. But everyone should follow what they think is right to do...

 

tuyet 

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ZumrutD
(@zumrutd)
Joined: 2 years ago

Trusted Member
Posts: 43

@tuyetv 
Yes, that’s the common thought and acceptable. That’s why I kindly added a word for those people in history. Say, an important scientist, a researcher, a mathematician, etc. They weren’t (mostly) in this for the fame, it was their other motivations, let’s say, but here we are analyzing freely, without having a chance to ask for their approval. It’s a dilemma I find myself in….

thank you

Zumrut

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Mirela
Posts: 144
(@mirela)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago

@scott-m-19

I personally used to have a lot of ethics rules about these things but I grew out of that thought process. Nowadays I just follow what feels right. 

For instance, a few years ago, a grandma (the paying party) was so adamant about reading her nephew's chart because he seemed lost to her and wouldn't take her lead on continuing his higher education path that she "KNEW" was good for him and she was paying for that path. I did the reading. It turned out his path was nothing like she projected on him. I thought I will never hear from her because I didn't tell her what she hoped.

Instead, a week later she contacted me wanting me to read the chart for her daughter that doesn't know if she should change her job, get divorced or not, etc., saying her daughter doesn't have time to reach out because she has so much on her place. That sounded a bit off to me, found myself questioning the reasoning in a way. In my mind I was like, is she just maybe butting in her nephew and daughter's lives trying to influence them?

I asked her to have her daughter write to me about those issues, thinking that would never happen. The daughter did write to me and I ended up using the time when I received the info from daughter to cast the chart or the moment. She later wanted me to read her birth chart as well. I did a few readings for them since then, mostly prasnas.

I will say that the paying grandma reaching out made me question "Should I?", because she sounded so agitated and panicked and determined to know, but then again....planets do get agitated, so people react differently to life problems.

 

Another example that comes to mind is a mother that wanted me to read her adult daughter chart recently. She wrote me that all other astrologers that she wrote to refused her because her daughter wasn't underage. My first instinct was to politely deny her as well, but that thought didn't sit well with me. So instead of assuming, I proceeded to ask her what was her relationship with her daughter or why does she want me to read her chart. She responded that she has a very normal relationship with her daughter but that they both have different views on the esoteric stuff, and they respect each other views. Basically her daughter thought astrology was a bunch of bs. She also told me she wants her daughter's chart read for her as a mother, she wants to understand her daughter better and their relationship. Reading her answer made a lot of sense to me so I accepted the payment.

After a few weeks from sending her the recording, she wrote me thrilled saying that she listened to it  with her daughter and the daughter was in disbelieve that I understood her and that because of my reading, they got closer than ever and bonded over something that her daughter didn't even believe in. I took it as the daughter did recognise herself and it helped that the mom was self-aware and tried to understand her daughter thru astrology. It felt so good as a reader that I listen to what she needed and was denied prior, and that I was able to bring light and happiness. 

If I were to just let my mind flag the invitation to read an adult's chart without permission, especially when the mom was upfront about being denied and quite frankly sounded a bit desperate to "know", and if I didn't ask further questions to clarify in order to make a decision, I would have deprived them of beautiful clarifying understanding and bonding.

Aside from that, I did get quite a few wives ordering charts for husbands, without their permission. I have no problem reading them. This is an opportunity for them to understand their person thru the sense of their chart. Will they all grasp the info transmitted thru me, what will they do with it, will that help them? I deeply feel that is not my concern. As long as I know I didn't mean to harm and I present the analysis from a neutral point of view without taking it personal or making to personal, thats all I can do. What they do with it and if they use it with an intent other than the one disclosed, it is that person's karma.

I am not ID'ing anyone to see if they are the person who orders, I am not asking for picture of the wife or the marriage certificate or birth certificate of kids. I simply work with data and analyse it in a taboo way with 8th house related stuff. It's exhausting to me to control so much. I tried for 40 years and I failed miserably. That's probably a personal problem because I am a mental projector with just head, ajna and throat center defined, so I have learned in the recent years to just not waste vital energy that I do not have. 

I have a ton more examples that start to come up as I write this...

I have a wonderful client that keeps coming back that once wanted a card reading for her older mom that felt like going on a therapy retreat with warmth and mud. She would travel by train and stay there for 10 days since they had accommodations and all. It was right after covid hit but the business weren't closed yet. The daughter (which I read for astrologically beforehand a couple of times) was living in a different country at the time and was so deeply worried about her mom's decision, but she said neither her nor her brother could sway the mom otherwise. They were concerned about her traveling alone, about her getting sick and about 10 days intensive therapy being too much for her. So anyways, I do the reading and it shows the mother will love it and is looking forward to it but it shows some crisis situation that might get her trip shortened, which could've meant the lock down or being too much for her, or getting sick. There was nothing in there saying STOP her at any cost, she shouldn't go. The daughter did have that terrible feeling and was expecting me to confirm. What I confirmed basically, was there was no stopping her mother which was excited like in high school and didn't care about any of the risks. SHe just wanted this badly.

Sure enough, mom goes and she comes back a few days early feeling extremely tired. At home she tests positive, her health takes a downturn, daughter flies home, they find her a spot in the hospitals that were full at the time. She recovers after a few weeks but gets diagnosed with dementia. The daughter spends next year helping out, but eventually has to find dedicated daily help so she can resume her life in the foreign country. She kept me posted thru all of this, which I was incredibly grateful for. I did beat myself up over it for that entire time. I was like, this is what I get for saying yes to read for someone else and for not getting the "cards" right. But the reality is I had no control over it, those experiences had to happen and I wasn't suppose to stop them from happening. The daughter worked thru a lot of her trauma from her estranged relationship with her mom, basically the 2 of them were bonding over not such nice circumstances and lots of forgiveness had to take place. 

The daughter KNEW all along something bad will happen, she just never received that confirmation that she was looking for. But even then, how would she have truly stopped her mom from doing her thing? Upon getting sick, beyond the 30 min phone reading we did 1 day before mom went on the journey, we looked together many times at the astrological chart of her mom and hers, and everything made so much sense. Of course, I didn't charge her for any of it, because I felt so guilty for what happened and not stopping her, even though that is what she contacted me for, last moment, last resource when her mom couldn't be stopped. Well, I failed at stopping her too.

For me, it was an experience that I have no power over anything. I am a simple tool and as long as I follow my truth, I can't avoid those experiences were I feel guilt or feel useless cause I couldn't save the day, or help avoid a misfortune. Those experiences are part of growing and learning and being part of the world. I have Mars as my AK and Lg Lord in the 6th in Aries so my Mars was so used to exert itself and push beyond obstacles. Mars feels horrible and angry when he fails at saving the day. Yet, I had to find a way to move past seeing it as a personal failure. It was more of a case where Mars didn't starve Saturn, so I had to be ok with not stopping the suffering and not have control.

When reading for others, I think it's ok to be "subjective" on who we say YES to for readings. I've had right from the get go a disclaimer for clients that states just that "reserving the right to deny any reading for any reason." It's also important to stay neutral in transmitting the findings. But beyond that, ultimately each reader finds what works for them as far as ethics code or moral standards or boundaries. We each have to live with ourselves and sleep well at night. So my only advice for anyone that is debating over what is the right etiquette, is to find what's best for them, to allow those views to change as they experience and learn from life and clients, and to not follow what any other astrologer, guru or book says, because each reader is so unique in what they have to offer and what they dont feel comfortable offering.

 

Hope my few examples help at least one person realise there is no one way fits all. Every time we feel like standardising Jupiter we should remember Mercury is starving Jupiter. But if we use the Mercury's standards to help our Saturn and personal boundaries and things we say no to, it is perfectly fine. 

 

Hugs,

Mirela

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Valen
(@valen)
Joined: 3 years ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 82

@mirela Couldn't agree with you more, Mirela!  Thank you for sharing.

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Scott-M-19
(@scott-m-19)
Joined: 2 years ago

Prominent Member
Posts: 502

@mirela 

Thanks for the examples. I have a close friend who is a professional HD practitioner and she said ultimately, you have to feel each case and make a decision to 'read' for them or not to. So, that is what I am going to do. The example I shared where the woman was having to discreetly find her husbands birth info to then give me was something I had do just that - feel it out and make a decision. It seemed inappropriate to me, so I denied it. At first I said yes to it. She took a while to get back to me saying she can't get to the data yet, and that is when I got the sense it didn't really seem like the right action to take to read her husbands chart. 

I did accept her sons though and will read that for her. 

I would prefer permission from people. But I wouldn't rule out unique instances where bypassing that can be a good thing to do. 

Those were great examples. 

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zucccchini
Posts: 30
(@zucccchini)
Trusted Member
Joined: 3 years ago

If you are a GOOD astrologer that is not something, If I were you, I would subscribe too.  Why do you think many public figures do not allow their birthtimes to be known.  But for someone to 'sneak' and give that information out, especially if that individual said NO!!!  If you are a BAD astrologer, won't make any difference other than maybe scaring someone unnecessarily.

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Manisha
Posts: 568
(@manisha)
Prominent Member
Joined: 3 years ago

@scott-m-19 

What is it that the wife needs her husband’s reading for? Since her and her husband’s path is the same, anything that affects him will affect her too and vice versa, and can be seen from her chart. Similarly, if she needs to know about her husband’s nature, that too can be seen from her own chart.

I understand what Ernst means when he says, it is about what will end up or won’t end up happening. In the meantime, it is amazing the way the mind creates all these constructs of what we should or shouldn’t do, or what we can or can’t do.

You seemed to have followed your intuition and seemed to be quite sure of the your decision, and yet you seeked for validation about it. I am wondering if you were picking up some red flag subconsciously, which is not yet clear in your conscious mind. On the other hand, perhaps you are not meant to read the husband’s chart, and it might be someone else’s responsibility.

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Scott-M-19
(@scott-m-19)
Joined: 2 years ago

Prominent Member
Posts: 502

@manisha 

She was interested in a general reading for her spouse. It was her first astro reading and she was naturally curious about her husband as well as her son. She never explored astrology before this time and when I first met her. Yes, you can read the significant people in one's life from the natal chart, but it is easier to read their charts individually. That is what she was wanting. 

At the end of the first reading I was going into how when she enters her Sa period, it will be a rougher ride. She asked this after me going into her current Ju period and when will that end....She is Virgo rising with Ma in Aq and Sa/Ra in Aries in 8th - a really difficult dainya yoga. AK Me in Scorpio in ashamed avastha in same lord conjunction. Me is db in D9 and only aspected by malefics. She has had some really difficult circumstances (on a whole host of levels) and has been lucky to make it out alive from violent situations and addictions. Her DK is Ma. Her saving grace is Ju on the ascendant. 

She did seem worried that her husband might die during her Sa period. I don't know longevity yet so I told her I can't really look into that at this time. Perhaps it will be true (she will be in her mid sixties when Sa comes to town). But I have yet to study longevity and Ernst has mentioned longevity is very hard to predict. I think trying to predict her husbands death from her chart is even harder especially since she did not know her birth time exactly. I rectified her chart down to a 15 minute window and feel very confident that I have her asc correct after she gave me like page and a half of info about her life when asked to give some relevant life events.

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I decided to post this on the forum because I thought it would be a good topic of discussion not just for me, but for others as well. I thought others would find it interesting and I think it is a relevant topic/subject.

 I was a little unsure with this particular scenerio. Ultimately, I always follow my gut and just roll with what I feel is right even if others disagree. But thought to seek what others do to get some clarity and have found it helpful. 

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So, this woman just wrote me back saying she simply asked her husband for his birth data so she can have the chart done and her husband said yes to it... She told me honesty has been an issue with her and it was a lesson for her to ask. So...I guess me initially saying yes, then reading a message of how she was trying to do things so secretively making me hesitant to do it (then saying no) forced her to confront this in herself to just be openly honest with her spouse. Now her spouse wants a reading!

Anyway, it felt right to share all of this - so I did...People have shared great insights on this. 

 

 

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Manisha
(@manisha)
Joined: 3 years ago

Prominent Member
Posts: 568

@scott-m-19 

I am glad you posted. This type of question comes up every so often, and it helps me look at things in a new light too. Apologies if my post sounded too confronting. In trying to figure out how things work, sometimes a lot of detachment is required, and it comes across when I am not paying attention and too engrossed in trying to see behind the veil.

Posted by: @scott-m-19

She told me honesty has been an issue with her and it was a lesson for her to ask.

It is always amazing how the universe works., and it is always amazing how following our intuition (however confusing to the mind) gives the best results.

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