How would Saturn return/square/opposition go if one has a weak Saturn? For example, Saturn in Aries? What about low degrees of Aries? Would that person have a more difficult time during their Saturn return?
@squiddaisy I just wanted to flesh this out a bit, as my former partner has Saturn in Aries with Rahu, and my current partner has Saturn in Aries in mutual exchange with (exalted) Mars, so I've seen it from several sides.
For someone with a starved Saturn, all Saturn things (usually time-related) are difficult, because they have a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of their relationship with Creation. Saturn in Aries people want to do things when they want to do them, not when it's time to do them, and so they suffer the consequences of impatience. That could be anything from existential frustration to superficial relationships to poor time-management.
The strange gift of this is that the person has a part of themselves that exists outside of linear time, and so that's why they don't understand how fixed time is, but then they also have all of the benefits that come with that. This is generally what we call neurodivergence.
By the way, I noted that you used the word "weak." Generally what we're concerned about with lajjitaadi avasthas is happiness. Weakness and unhappiness often go together, but not always.
Is there any particular remedy for Saturn as lagna lord ? So taking care of body overall helps the person or something like that ? I have a person who is Capricorn lagna, Saturn in Leo with Moon, and dont see much aspect from friendly planets. So how we could go about giving good suggestion for this person to improve things?
@deepakmurali Moon in the 8th is always tough. Lagna Lord in the 8th too... Worse. Best advice, some diplomatic version of "get used to it", I guess. Seriously, if the person is open to spirituality, seeing tough experiences as an opportunity for to see through the maya, basically embracing the idea of moksha, it would help. Other than that, I don´t know... In a case like this I would study the whole chart for more hints about the level of consciousness. The akriti yogas, the Moon´s nakshatra, the Cards of Truth-spread and obviously the nodes. The AK. Etc.
The placement that you are mentioning means only pain to a person that has little spiritual awareness, I think. So that´s really the key on how to guide them.
Staffan
@deepakmurali I have Capricorn lagna, Saturn in Cancer receiving a 50-ish virupa aspect from the Sun, so I've got all the things. Help your client understand that there's a natural order to life, or it doesn't work. Things dont happen when you want them to happen, or think they should happen - they happen when it's time for them to happen. You can't eat a cake before you bake it. You can't finish a book until you've read it. Events have to happen in a certain order, or the whole thing falls apart. That's Saturn's job. Let Saturn do His job, and stop thinking you know better than He does.
hmm Yea its bit difficult to suggest something!
@deepakmurali Do you happen to know what Birth Card the person has, according to the CoT:th system. It gives quite some depth for to understand the person, in my experience.
But again, having the Moon and the Lagna lord in the 8th will always be tough, since it´s the most hidden house and the house of interruptions, so tough the floor is going to open beneath this person more than once. And since the Moon is also the mind, it means that they are constantly expecting that, consciously or unconsciously.
Yet another important factor would be to study whether there are any padding for the Moon. I refer to the anapha/sunapha yogas that Ernst teaches in the Yoga of characters course. Planets in the 2nd and/or the 12th house from the Moon, that is. A Moon in the 8th with no planets in the 7th and 9th will make the person feel extremely exposed to sudden changes in life.
Staffan
@staffan @deepakmurali Just wanted to share my current take on the 8th, which is that it's the place where we take a look at all the stuff we've created (and brought into our lives) via Aries through Libra, and we kind of sour on things, and we go, "You know, some of this stuff that I created was actually a terrible idea," and remove that stuff from our life. If a planet is there, that will give the style of removal. So if Mars is there, we're so sure we're never going to want that thing again that we break or destroy it irrecovably. Which is why Mars in the 8th is considered such a chart blemish. It requires an enormous amount of ownership to be happy with that kind of experience.
nice perspective, how then you equate Jupiter in there ?! I see a lot of my loved ones have this placement !
@jeffk Agreeing with @deepakmurali here, it´s a very good take. Mind to elaborate on how you see each planet in the 8th? I mean, each of them due to their character, it´s kind of obvious, but since you have been thinking about it, maybe care to share your thoughts?
Staffan
@staffan I haven't thought about each planet individually, so am just talking off the cuff here. But when I see Jupiter anywhere I think "buffer" - both in the sense of an insulating cushion, and in the sense of a priest who provides buffs (like in a video game). So with Jupiter in the 8th, the person is going to be buffered from the consequences of removing things from their lives. But if Jupiter is in bad shape, then that buffering itself will hurt them in some way.
@deepakmurali Does that interpretation track with your loved ones that you mentioned?
@jeffk I think the ones in the 8th I have two neutral and two in Venus sign, since Venus signs are my little kids, I am not sure how it will pan out but they do have some karma of letting go I guess, For neutral ones, I feel they get pretty nicer when things abt to break up totally😀 ! They tend to act like nicer when other almost want to give up on them :P!
@staffan @deepakmurali You can also think of the 8th as the Scorpio house. Scorpio is emotional security. So the 8th is no longer needing certain things in our lives due to be as emotionally secure as we are. It's "editing."
@jeffk Much like the Saturn card. Since you refered to the cards. "Time to let go."
How do you compare it to the 12th house? More hidden / also to the person / and sudden, of course. Apart from that?
Reminds me about the four challenging runes in the futhark; Hagalaz / the hailstorm / for breaks and sudden changes, Nautiz / need / for growth, Isa / ice / for standstill and contemplation and Jera / the year / for time and patience combined with effort
Hagalaz - the 8th
Nautiz - 12th
Isa - 4th
Jera - 6th
... maybe?
Staffan
@staffan 12th is the house of hidden things, or things that hide you. People often hide things that they want to remove from their lives, but that's because of shame. I mean, you might inspire somebody by letting go of a lousy relationship.
10th, 11th, and 12th houses are meta. So 12th is removing the person from life, while 8th is removing things from the person's life.
@jeffk Hm... But any planet in the 12th would indicate something that will be removed, right? Venus or example: Expenses in relationships, relationships in foreign country and all that, but also possibly end of relationships...?
Staffan
@staffan It depends what you mean by "remove." The 8th would remove the relationship as something that you're doing. But the 12th just removes it from the view of others. So you could still be doing the relationship, but just in secret.
@staffan It depends what you mean by "remove." The 8th would remove the relationship as something that you're doing. But the 12th just removes it from the view of others. So you could still be doing the relationship, but just in secret.
@jeffk Important difference, thank you!
You are new on the forum, right? What´s your school before Ernst? I feel I could want a sip of the same drink.
Staffan
@staffan Before Ernst I had studied astrology generally, but never found a teacher that I really felt was worth studying with. Ernst is the only one.
I'm returning to the forum after a hiatus. I've been here in fits & spurts, and been studying with Ernst for like 20 years by now. He's who turned my interest in astrology from an intellectual curiosity into a sadhana.
Never studied cards of truth. Currently still middle of the handwriting. Once done may proceed to take up those. Yea I need to look into those you mentioned.
@deepakmurali Cards are great. You're going to love them. Also, Ernst gives intepretations of lajjitaadi avasthas that are solid gold.