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jupiter sun conj compare jupiter saturn conj

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Marianela
Posts: 30
(@marianela)
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Joined: 1 year ago
I have some very close people around me with both models:
2 Ju-Sun in Pisces
1 Ju-Sun-Me in Sag
1 Ju-Sun-Moon in Cancer
 
1 Ju-Sa in Capri
1 Ju-Sa-Ve in Pisces
1 Ju-Sa-Me-Mars in Aq
 
I'll add to what was said these 2 traits that I can see in my Ju-Sun cases, but never at all in the Ju-Sa cases
 
"over optimism"
"don't always have abundance but want to behave as if, so that they will give or promise more than they can"
 
From the Agitation group, only the one with Ju-Sun-Me in Sag is pretty different than the other 3. She doesn't have these 2 traits. She is not at all a people pleasing and doesn't have at all a mask of nice, sweet, which the others might have, as their interaction with people is being nice and sweet. Is that is effective to get what they want? I doubt. I'd say it's the spontaneous way to interact, and sometimes they can be on the edge to betray oneself, but I don't see the skill to manipulate with it. Of course I don't see everything.
The one with Ju-Sun-Me in Sag is very controlling but does it in a totally direct way.
Her case is so different that it makes me think if it might be happening in the 5th and so there is also Shaming? Or simply because Ju is also starved by Me?
In her case I can glimpse maybe the loss of purpose or of who she really is. But not in the other 3 cases. They may have been wasting time with wrong activities or people from time to time, but in general to follow their inspirations is the motivation of their life despite some temporary misdirections. 
 
All these 4 cases of Sun-Ju can exude certain happiness, as if an aura that however the Ju-Sa cases, definitely don't have. Maybe at some point it is used as a mask to get something, but in my opinion it's there with them, naturally. I really think they have inside the inner flame of joy.
 
1 case of Ju-Sa have the creativity a bit blocked, the one who has also Ve there, but the other 2 examples are extremely creative and successful artists. Sa-Ju most of the times forms Raja Yoga, while Sun-Ju very rarely. In fact the most recognised successful of all the cases is the one with Ju-Sa in Capri. Ju is DB in 11th but Ve Ex in 1st. An amazing original dancer. She got the Dance National Prize in Spain. She is however not wealthy, always a bit worried about it, even though she is ok.
 
The 2 cases with Sun-Ju in Pisces are also artists. I am one of them and art has been a liminal space where I could finally attempt to be myself or approach something true. Art was  not a choice but a necessity out of difficult adaptation to life. And it has also to do with the struggle with morals and its precept to be good. The independence as an adult to decide by oneself and therefore to begin to know oneself takes much much longer than expected when Ju-Sun conjunct.
The cases I know with Ju-Sa are pretty mature on this regard.
 
 
Ingmar Bergman has Ju-Sun in Cancer. If birth time is ok he has it in the 2nd. A lot in his movies sprouts from this struggles with morals. In his 80's he was asked in an interview about his demons. He did prepare well for the question and came with a list: He explained about his demons: the one of catastrophe, the one of fear, of rage, of punctuality, of pedantry, of order, of grudges...and at the end he wants to talk about a demon he doesn't have, the demon of nothingness, he said it to be when creativity or imagination abandons one, so that things get totally empty or silent. And he ends: -this has never happened to me, that's something for which I am profoundly grateful.
I see there Sun-Ju in Cancer.
 

 

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TamaraP
Posts: 115
(@tamarap)
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Joined: 11 months ago

Marianela, so interesting, thank you!! Would you mind to write down the name of this dancer in Spain? I have to see if it is possible to find Tarkovskys birth data in the net, would be interesting too, regarding arts, creativity and great spiritual approach to his art. 🙋🏻‍♀️

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Marianela
(@marianela)
Joined: 1 year ago

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Posts: 30

@tamarap

Hi Tamara,
I can give you in private message the name of this dancer if you are interested in her work, but she doesn't want her birth data to be so exposed.
 
Tarkovsky birth chart is available in internet. As you asked I had a look, it's an amazing chart. I guess the power and connexion of dharma and moksha is important in an artist with a spiritual drive.
Sag Lagna, with Ju, 1 and 4 Lord in 9 Leo.
9 Lord Sun EX in 5 together with Mars, Lord of 5 and 12.
And also in 5 Mercury adding his Kendra power, Lord of 7 and 10.
Moon Lord of 8 makes another Moksha yoga in 4 Pisces.
Finally Venus and Saturn keep their good dignity in the background, Venus AK Lord of 6 and 11, in 6 Taurus. Saturn Lord of 2 and 3 in 3 Aquarius.
 
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Quasar259
(@quasar259)
Joined: 2 years ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 173

@marianela what do you think about his birth time on the 4th at 1:21am and his death on 12/29/86?  I didn't see much confluence of signs or in Varshaphal.  There is another time of 22:50 on the 3rd and that has a lot more signs of his death in Rasi and Varshapal.

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Marianela
(@marianela)
Joined: 1 year ago

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Posts: 30

@quasar259

Yet I haven't studied anything about transits or Varshapala.
I think both options could be. 
Sag Lagna, puts Sa in 3 Aquar, Moon conjunct Rahu in 4 Pisces, Mars, Sun, Me in 5 Aries, Ve in 6 Taurus, Ju in 9 Leo. 
Scorpio Lagna puts Sa in 4 Aquar, Moon conjunct Rahu in 5 Pisces, Mars, Sun, Me in 6 Aries, Ve in 7 Taurus, Ju in 10 Leo. 
 
 
If Scorpio rising, the 6th is emphasised with Mars, Sun and Me in Aries. 
He certainly had to deal with enormous amount of obstacles and adversities. Russian authorities and others. 
But did the adversities destroyed him or did he managed well? He died pretty young 54 by lung cancer. And some say that during the shooting of Stalker, they did inhale toxic chemicals, so that him and the main actor, even younger, died a few years later from the same cancer. 
What fits better here: an Aries 6th with Sun, Mars and Me, or a Taurus 6th with Ve in there? 
Not sure. 
If we look at 6 as Upachaya, I feel there was no external improvement as time passes. His first movie "Ivan's childhood" won already a big prize in Venice. Also the second one (maybe his foremost movie) "Rubliov" who won a prize in Cannes despite Russian government efforts to avoid it. Later he had even more troubles, unfinished movie, lost of negatives, almost going to jail... And eventually as he couldn't stand it anymore he definitely emigrated to Italy 1984. He died 2 years later. 
I think a powerful Aries 6 house with Ma, Su and Me would have work better.
 
Last detail about 6th. The characters he's been interested for his movies are people in a period of intense crisis. When they don't know if they've will manage to hold or will be completely destroyed. 
They managed somehow after enormous efforts, with strong or inverosímil acts of faith...but they are never heroic, or get the spotlight of success, it's anonimity their reward. 
For me it talks more about Sa 3 and Ve in 6th than to Aries 6 Ma, Sun, Me. 
 
 
From the dharma point of view. 
He is a poet and philosopher using movies for that. His book "Sculpting time" is so inspiring for all kind of artists.
 
He positions himself as an artist, just to emphasy how money is a disrupting element in making movies, although he accepts what cannot be changed. And primarily to make clear that the key point is to have a vision, the craft aspect of it being just a tool to serve the vision. 
 
In the Sag option, Aries 5th with Sun, Mars and Me seems great to me. Sun 9th Lord in 5th, Mars 5th in 5th and Me 7th and 10th.
He also would have Ju 1st and 4th in 9th Leo. Rasi aspect manifesting even more. 
 
When Scorpio Lagna. Still we have Ju as 5th lord in 10th, already Raj yoga. Maybe enough. 
Additionally there will be Moon conjunct Rahu in 5th Pisces. Would it make weaker or confused his creativity? 
If so, I think it cannot fit. 
 
There will be always also Sa MT in Aquar rasi aspecting Aries. Another separating aspect, what maybe could relate to his son, Andrius, who still, a teenager couldn't leave the country with his father. 
And just one year before his dead, from an affair he had another son, of whom he also could see a picture.
His last movie "Sacrifice" is dedicated to his son Andrius. The movie itself displays a very pessimistic view of the circumstances humans have reached. However still some hope could come from our children, provided they plant a dead tree and water it everyday 🙂 
 
 
Anything else concrete that could be checked? 
His parents divorced when he was 3-4 years old. And so he grew up in a family without a man, with his mother, grandmother and sister. 
Is this 2nd house?
He considered his childhood crucial for his further career as filmmaker. His personal sensitivity and creative impressions having been carved in childhood. 
Sag Lagna, 2nd Capri, empty, only rasi aspect from Ju in Leo. Lord Sa in Mt in 3rd.
If Scor Lagna, 2nd Sag, empty rasi aspect by Moon and Ra in Pisces and Ke in Virgo. 
 
 
4th house was hard for him. He affirms in interviews how anxiety has accompany him for many years. 
With Sco Lagna, Sa MT in 4th. Rasi aspect from Aries.
With Sag Lagna, Moon conjunct Rahu in 4 Pisces. Only rasi aspect Ke. And being hemmed between malefics.
 
 
I don't know people with similar combinations. All the analisys comes from my imagination
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TamaraP
(@tamarap)
Joined: 11 months ago

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Posts: 115

@marianela there is really some hard stuff he has been confronted with. When you look at his Drishti Yuti, you think the Avashtas don’t look so bad. But go to the Dig Bala table- especially Jupiter is very low there. I recently learned that there is a connection between bad Jupiter Avashtas and Cancer. Interesting that Jupiter is growth and Cancer too, but in a destructive way. Now I really want to know more about him- I wonder if we can see the conflict he had with his mother land Russia , Russian authorities, the absence of his father, the absence of himself regarding his own son. His Sun is low in Dig Bala too, very starved by Saturn if I am not wrong. I think he was a workaholic with a deep, unfulfilled longing. Where can we see that longing in the chart? You know the feeling that you wanna know all in one glance? 😀 you guys make it, I will still take some time until I see clear, but as I admire Tarkovskys work it is a another good motivator. I did not find the other birth date quasar mentioned… where did you find it? Thank you!

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Quasar259
(@quasar259)
Joined: 2 years ago

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Posts: 173

@tamarap https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tarkovsky,_Andrei

His birth time accuracy is rated C.  Go down to the end of the source notes, there you will find a discussion about alternate birth times.

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Quasar259
(@quasar259)
Joined: 2 years ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 173

@tamarap screen shot of 22:50

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TamaraP
(@tamarap)
Joined: 11 months ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 115

@quasar259 thank you! Scorpio Lagna seems more congruent to me , I will study the chart more 🙏

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