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Planet habits vs D9

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sandyacc
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I read the LA master course paper about changing habits, changing the way one does one's planet.

Question:

Doesn't the D9 as the giver the fruits of the Rashi chart and dharma depictor already describe the changes that the chart owner will undertake ?

Does the D9 not somewhat restrict the free will the chart owner has on changing habits?

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Ernst Wilhelm
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The apparent changes we make are based on the dasas. these affect all vargas. So its not like we change into the navamsa, we change in accordance with the dasas and all vargas are relevant to that. but that's not really change, that is all predestined, it just looks like change. The only thing we can change is our habits. that is the lajjitaadi avasthas. 

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sandyacc
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@ernst Thanks! (didn't mean to reopen the topic just for saying that)

 

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Manisha
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Posted by: @ernst

The only thing we can change is our habits. that is the lajjitaadi avasthas. 

Would that also not be pre-destined? I am watching 4 young adults at the moment. I know that 3 of them are having transiting Saturn either conjunct or oppose their natal Sun. I don’t know about the 4th person, but he is making some major decisions in his life too.

I looked at the Cards for one of them because I don’t have the details for all the others. His path is set to go in a certain direction at this time. I can see how transiting Saturn is playing its role in getting him to move in this direction.

So wouldn’t doing or not doing something, changing habits or repeating them, also based on what is fated?

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Mitryendra80
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@manisha I guess it would depend on what you call "fate" in the final analysis.

Maybe everything that ends up "happening", including our choices that move us away from bad habits, may still reflect, at some level, something that is going on in the sky.

Some part of the sky, or some level of the sky, or in some division or harmonic of the sky, or at least an octave of a level of the sky.

Perhaps this is especially true when we look at the chart, dashas, and transits after we have made those choices. Some fated signatures may come out of the woodwork more tangibly and obviously then. After all, whether we see things as waves of probability or particles of fate depends on the observer, and where in space/time we direct our focus. (and maybe from where in space/time we direct it, which points back to the observer again).

This is still in my limited thinking though.

I usually don't like Ernst's answers to such questions 😉 and I sense that because we are devoting a lot of time and effort to this course about changing things that are extremely hard to change(L. avashthas), I don't think most of us would really want to know the answer to such a question at this time yet.

It might provoke a loss of customers and students, lol.

The birth chart is based on the first breath. We may indeed have a fated number of breaths we are alotted in this lifetime, as some yogis believe. But like the Lajjitadi avashthas, the breath is related to the air element, and we can change our breathing habits so that we get more oxygen and satisfaction with each breath. We can slow down and deepen our breathing. We can stop fighting the free flow of our breath, as we do when we hold on to frustration and blocked emotions. Or we can make our breath become so subtle and still that we go a long time without taking a noticeable "binary" audible breath; and instead transcend the breath all together and subsist on the "breath behind the breath"(as we do in deep meditation). If we give our breath just the barest attention, it can start to unkink and flow a little better.

I also believe that if a planet is starved by more than one factor, such as Mars being starved by the sign that it is in (eg. a Mercury sign) as well as being conjunct Saturn in that sign, that would make it even harder to change Mars habits than if it were simply starved by a conjunct Saturn while in a friends sign. Karma can be heavier and more fixed sometimes.

There are so many astrological reasons one may find for anything, since there are so many timing and predictive techniques. If most or all of the techniques one is good at, the transits, the dashas, the prashna, the varshaphala, etc. show forces that go against making choices that free one from a bad habit during a certain point in time, then it is much more fated to not change in that period. Ernst does even have a course on making predictions through Lajjitadi Avashthas.

I think we have to let the free will riddle just resolve within ourselves over time and not look outside for answers that may or may not satisfy the mind. This, I believe, is Ryan Kurczak's perspective.

S.

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Manisha
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@mitryendra80

I don’t mean to be disrespectful to anyone. Since I started with astrology, the only thing I have seen is that everything is fated. With Lajjittaadi Avasthas, I thought there was a possibility that we could change things, but as I watch these young people move through their lives and I compare it to mine when I was about their age, I do not see how.

There is the saying that there is no Free Will, but we have to act as if there is. There are many different ways I am seeing this simple sentence being played out. The only thing I can see from my limited perspective is to allow everyone to go down their own path, allow them to make their own choices even if they are wrong ones, and be there at the end when they need someone.

So, even though Lajjittaadi Avasthas are wonderful, and Rahu-Ketu explains a whole lot, it is only when one is ready to change and willing to undergo the transformation would one come across the information, or understand it, or look at it. So, coming across that information, as it happened in my life, is also fated. So, the only thing that we have control over is what we do with that information after we get access to it. Or would that be fated too? 

I can understand people not exposed to occult studies wandering around clueless, but unless it was fated why are astrologers also not able to change themselves?

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Mitryendra80
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Posted by: @manisha

Since I started with astrology, the only thing I have seen is that everything is fated.

I guess that could explain reality just fine as well.

I don't mean disrespect either, but since you have already stated a strong answer to your own question, why did you post the question in the first place?

I took it that you still wanted Ernst's (and possibly other members') thoughts or convictions about it because you weren't sure. As you have evolved, you have expressed different views and questions about the free will topic on the forum, if I remember correctly. Did you make up your mind after reading my post? Or do we just not see eye to eye in general?

Ernst believes that up to 25% of someone's life cannot be seen in an astrological chart, and that the more one automatically follows one's early-ingrained habits, especially of the ego-mind, the more one wastes that 25% that is freely available.

But you addressed your question to Ernst, not me, so I apologize for budding in 🙂

I have actually liked watching Ernst's free in-depth videos on fate and free-will more than some brief answers given while writing or when he is briefly asked about it by guests on video interviews.

I don't see how it is even possible that we know enough about the astronomy around us to predict everything about a life. Do to the Shiva principle, the astronomy itself is not flawlessly or permanently fixed. Even now there are gaps in it and what we have are mathematical approximations.

Our physical reality on earth, and all the gravitational forces that effect it, will not give us enough time to find all the "correct" calculations that we can be able to depend on indefinitely because they are not fixed. In fact, I'm a bit more concerned about dark energy ripping everything apart than how fated the planets and the abstract/occult mathematical zodiac and house systems make our life on earth in this little solar system for now. I am not yet convinced everything is fated, but if it is, I am not convinced there is any way or enough time to actually prove it. That's why I choose to assume/act as if I have a smidgen of free will. My Rahu is close to Mars, and I am a 3 of spades, so I choose to live as if there is free will, at least with myself.

I have had some ongoing challenges throughout my life with Geminis, and with communication in general. I am a Sag. Lagna and Gem contains my 7th cusp.  Gem's lord is also debilitated in my Sun sign. Right now Mars and Rahu are about to crash together in Gemini, and ketu is transiting almost exactly conjunct my ascendant cusp.! That is why I have sworn to stay away from correspondence for a while as I sense a "storm" coming. Yet I have been so distant from everything else as well that I find myself sitting back at the computer again typing away. So that itself proves that some things are definitely fated.

S.

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Manisha
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@mitryendra80

Posted by: @mitryendra80

since you have already stated a strong answer to your own question, why did you post the question in the first place?

That is a very good question, and I have been mulling over it today. I do not have an answer yet. It is not about not seeing eye to eye with you, it is about starting off at one point and exploding out in different directions. For me, information is information, it doesn’t matter where it comes from. It is food for my brain.

Funny you saying that you are sensing a ‘storm’ coming. I am feeling that chaos within myself. It is Rudra in his destructive form. I thought it was the New Moon affecting me, but this could be about the upcoming Spring Equinox.

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Manisha
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@mitryendra80

Well, mystery solved! It was transiting Mars triggering my Saturn that was doing it, and with Mercury transiting through Pisces, I just couldn’t understand what was going on, and why I was going over ground that I had already covered. LOL. My daughter has almost the same placements as I do, and she was getting triggered too but in a different way. So I had to really look into what was happening with the transits.

With regards to Fate and Free Will, I was only sharing my thoughts as I was going through certain changes. Perhaps, for me, with Mars DB conjunct Ketu, it is about letting go and learning to practice non-action, or rather action that happens energetically and not on the material plane. And with Jupiter DB, I am learning more about having faith and patience. Pluto has been triggering all my planets ever since he entered Sagittarius, so I have been through major internal changes that I just could not catch up to. Going through Jupiter MD and Rahu-Ketu maturation during the same time has not been fun either. And it all happened in this past 7-year COT period. A few more months to go for a new 7-year period to start.

Let’s just say that I have actually experienced the feeling of being not the one in control for more than 2 years. For someone who used to make backup plans for backup plans, it has been a very humbling experience. I physically felt like someone else had taken over the driving because I had been going down the wrong road. I physically felt like being a computer that was being rebooted, and the slow progress was being shown in a bar percentage-wise like in the old computers. On the outside, I looked normal. No one could have guessed what was happening inside of me. To understand all of this, I had to get away from my mind to watch the mind at play from a bird’s eye view. But that is my life path.

Your life path might be different and these things might not be pertinent to it. So I wouldn’t worry about it or take it to heart. It is just great that I have found a place where I can have a conversation about these things and think out loud, and where people reciprocate with their thoughts which help me see through certain blocks. Since the environment I was born and brought up in was not conducive to helping me understand these changes that I have been going through, I am very appreciative of this forum and the people who contribute to it.

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Mitryendra80
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Glad that you are surviving and thank you for sharing and contributing. No worries (and sorry if my last post came across as a little combative).

Ketu transiting my ascendant cusp along with Rahu and Mars on top of my descendant cusp these past several days has reopened a few cans of worms as I start entering the heart of my Rahu maturity. It has to do with the zodiacs and their history.

Although it started in 2016 during Saturn maturity, it really began to take off in the Summer of 2017, particularly during the Rahu solar eclipse that happened on top of my own Rahu, when the Vedic zodiac controversy really exploded on Youtube.

And now I am forced to try to gather all of my haphazard notes, rambling paragraphs, and bookmarks that have piled up in my digital and physical notebooks since then, during a current db mercury return, and cognitive impairment that is even worse than it was back then, to try to put things together. These past few days I haven't had the energy to correspond about it (or anything else) with anyone despite a few invitations to do so.

The sign of Gemini has had it rough recently, esp. for those who already have starved self factors in it and/or its lord afflicted. Mars should be out of there in a month or so. Rahu will take longer, so good luck. I can only imagine how difficult it might be for someone solve a natal Sa-Su conjunction while Ra and Ma are also currently moving through the same space. My only issue with Gemini is its db lord. (Also one of the 108 archaic name mantras for mercury, the one corresponding to the 3:20 section of Pisces where my Mercury is placed, means "the lord of Gemini".)

I wish I could find some sky-blue/cyan colored parrots to feed in order propitiate that rashi!

S.

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Manisha
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@mitryendra80

No worries at all, especially since I had been wondering about it myself 🙂 

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