Dear members of this forum,
I have recently finished the "Interpreting Avasthas" course and have been looking at the charts of people I know to practice this technique. I am now at the point where I have exhausted the number of people within my social circle that I can ask for their birth details and whose lives and personalities I know well enough to see them reflected in their birth charts. I feel like in order to properly learn a technique, learning the theory behind it and testing that on a handful of charts of the people you know and cannot be objective about is not enough. I feel that that theory needs to go hand in hand with experience, ideally the many concrete ways that experience can manifest in real people's charts. I also feel a strong desire to make my own observations and eventually not have to exclusively rely on what I have learned (i. e. someone else's thoughts and research, however brilliant they may be).
The best way to do that that I can think of is to collect a number of charts, sit down with the natives and give them prompts so they can talk about their placements and lives. I am a member of multiple Facebook astrology groups and have considered asking people if they would like to participate in something like that. However, I can't help but think that doing so might be unethical in some way. Of course, I would fully disclose that I am not a professional astrologer and point out the limitations of what I would be able to do. I'm still a beginner, I have not yet finished the beginner's section of this website. I haven't studied Jaimini and don't know timing techniques. But then why would people agree to a reading? Shouldn't I be able to offer something in return for them telling me their stories (who wants to feel like a guinea pig)? On the other hand, if I don't try and test the techniques enough, how can I know they work and how can I actually develop my skills?
I would love to hear from those who are more advanced than me about how they dealt with this dilemma. At the beginner's stage, you know very little, but whatever you do know still needs to be practiced. How did you deal with this and practice in the beginning? Any advice would be appreciated!
Edit: I've decided to wait and finish the beginner's section first before potentially approaching people I don't know personally for their birth charts. Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond, share their experiences and approaches. You have no idea how much you've helped me! I tend to ask a lot of questions (my teachers in school always wished I had an "off" button), which I know can be a little much. Thank you so much for indulging me and helping me. You guys all have the patience of saints!
HI Angela,
I am far from being advanced and consider myself at the beginner's stage as well but I can at least tell you about where I'm at as I've done a few readings for friends already. I am very open about the fact that I am a beginner and the only thing I ask in return is an honest feedback (and, if they are willing, a testimonial that I can use for my website when building one becomes relevant for me). I even got a donation from one of them the other day, something I had never put on the table but that was spontaneously offered after the reading.
Of course, I oftentimes tell myself that those people would be better off with a more experienced astrologer but I also remind myself that we get the perfect "client" at the perfect time. Meaning, we are a perfect match at this time of your lives and what you say is what they need to hear, regardless of your level of expertise.
I'm also not sure that, knowing all the techniques in the world makes you the best astrologer there is. I've noticed that, some of my best conversations happened when I knew less and I was less caught up in trying to assemble all the techniques into one meaningful package. Ketu in Gemini, what can you expect? ;)).
I wouldn't worry about Jaimini, I've taken the first audio classes and am using some of the techniques I learned there, it's great and straight to the point but you can add that later, once you have a solid foundation for what you want to do. I've personally decided to focus 100% on Rahu/Ketu which, in itself, gathers a lot of other needed topics and knowledge (Lajjitaadi Avasthas , Yoga of characters,...). So, my advice to you would be to, first, take a hard look at what type of astrologer you want to me (aka your niche) and build your studying and practice around that. it took me 9 months to get to my Rahu/Ketu conclusion and, while I don't regret all the other things I've learned (because it's so holistic anyway), I could have saved myself some time being more focused. I've just listened to Ernst's video on "factors that support the healing of Rahu and Ketu" and he mentions that one of his students built a successful compatibility practice by learning the Akriti Nabhasa Yogas (and some other compatibility yogas) and that's all he uses. But, with a 10 of Clubs in my Pluto cards, I know I need to get myself involved in multiples activities and topics before I can strip away what doesn't work for me (such as hard core predictive astrology, for example).
So, those limitations you mention can actually become a strength (I believe in the power of the niche) and as long as you are open re: your level of expertise and what you can and cannot do, I don't see anything unethical about it.
Hope this helps!
Mona
Thank you for taking the time to respond and share what your approach is. You made some really good points.
I agree that honesty is the best policy and it's important to let the people whose charts you read know what you can and cannot do.
Thank you reminding me to just have faith that we meet the right person who will benefit from our help at that point in some way. Ernst has a video on YouTube in which he essentially says the same thing. For multiple reasons that are reflected in my chart (sleeping Jupiter, starved by Venus, for example) I have a hard time trusting that I will make the right decisions. I have seen first hand how damaging it can be to a person to get a bad reading and know that a lot of astrologers out there are not as conscientious. So there's a part of me that thinks of all the worst case scenarios, of what might happen if I misinterpret or miss something in a chart. But then again, that reading might just be the reason they feel motivated to prove the prediction wrong or it might be just what they needed to hear at the moment.
Thank you for also pointing out that you don't necessarily need to know all the techniques to potentially give a good reading. I think the core issue for me is that my masculine side is so overdeveloped (Sun and Mars exalted). My mother is a card reader, she taught me how to read, but I was never really good at it because I had a hard time tapping into my intuition. There's a part of me that wants to make up for that by studying as many techniques as possible (not all at once, of course). I think experience will also help with that over time, but maybe I should seriously consider working yoga and meditation into my daily routine.
I also appreciate your advice of telling me to find my niche. Until recently, I never really considered that I could have one or that I could use astrology to help others. Not that I didn't have the desire to help others, I just didn't think I'd ever know enough for that to be of use to others. But what I've learned about the Laajiitadi Avasthas and Rahu and Ketu so far is so profound that I would love for others to benefit from it too. I love everything I've watched on this website about Rahu and Ketu. My memory is so terrible that I have to take notes on everything, so I can refer back to them. So when I say I've only studied part of the beginner's section, Rasi Sutras, and the Jyotish Building Blocks, that really means: This is what I've taken detailed notes on and feel I have understood and taken time to reflect on. I don't know what kind of astrologer I want to be. A good one? One that knows her stuff really well and can really help others ????? I have yet to figure out what that means for me. I think with Rahu conjunct the 10th in Pisces, I just have to take the plunge and see where it takes me. So I really relate to your experience of having to get an overview and only then being able to narrow it down.
Thank you so much for your help!!
Angela
@angela-wilson look like we share a lot in common and, as far as bad readings are concerned, one (sidereal) led me to Ernst and the tropical zodiac, another one (akashic records) to the confirmation I should focus on Rahu and Ketu. Somehow, those “bad” readings sent me on the right track by feeling off or initially sending me in the wrong direction:)
@angela-wilson Yes, I love this, "just have faith that we meet the right person who will benefit from our help at that point in some way."
Sometimes someone is supposed to get a "bad" reading! I got an unsatisfying reading in Sidereal for my first ever Vedic Astrology reading and that is when I decided to just figure it out for myself and I started looking stuff up for myself and learning. So I was supposed to get that unsatisfactory reading 🙂
When I first started studying this system I was using Sidereal, as you know, and people started asking me to take a look at their charts. Then it kept not lining up when I was scheduled to connect with them! It was not flowing easily so I payed attention to that and put the readings off. Then eight months later I decided to commit to the Tropical zodiac and I realized why I didn't do those reading before. They were friends who would have been very confused that what I had told them about their charts had shifted.
Now people still ask me to look at their charts and I tell them they can give me their birth data and I will use it as one of my "practice charts" and study it along with my classes. I tell them that later down the line, when I am ready, I will tell them anything I have learned that I feel wants to be shared. I say that there is, "no charge and no promises."
In this way I have a growing collection of charts which I have been going back to look at over the last year. Every time I learn something new I go back to these charts. They are like case studies. This has worked for me so far. I see why you would want to interact and discuss more with people about their charts as this sounds like great learning fun. I would love to do that too! But I don't have time to do anything beyond what I am doing so I figure that is for a reason.
I do think the more you put yourself out there, visibility wise, that you are learning astrology the more people will want you to look at their charts. That seems to be what happens for me, at least...
I love that story. It goes to show that, ultimately, everything happens the way it's supposed to. Sometimes when things aren't flowing, maybe it's just not time for it to happen yet. Thank you for reminding of these things!
I like the solution that you have come up with. It's a really clever and great way to collect data, potentially help people, and still learn something yourself. I think I might do this once I'm done with the beginner's section.
Thank you so much!!
@angela-wilson You mentioned a strong desire to make your own observations. The best way to do that is focus on your own chart. Since you have recently finished the Avasthas, look at how it affects you, what do you feel, how do you deal with it.
Astrology came into my life because it was I who needed it. So I focus on myself with it. I love mystery and I love to solve puzzles, and I have found myself to be the biggest and most multi-dimensional puzzle and mystery I could have ever undertaken to solve. An entire lifetime will fall short to fit all the pieces together. But somehow, by understanding myself I have begun to understand others better. By trying to puzzle myself out, I am learning new things and making new connections within astrology.
Plus it keeps my mind sharp, and helps me be more observant and grounded in the present most of the times.
This might not be everyone's cup of tea, but since you asked I decided to throw in a different perspective...
Thank you for reading my post and taking the time to respond!
I think the use of astrology you described is a really valid and important one. This is actually a lot of what I have been doing. Before I would even look at other people's charts, I took about a month to study the Avasthas in my own. I should also say that I intentionally didn't rush through the material (as I would have liked to ???? ), but only watched one per day and would then go for an hour walk to reflect on what I had learned. That really helped me understand certain Avasthas and, as you said, it's helping me understand myself and others better. This is one of the main draws of astrology: Gaining awareness of your own unproductive patterns and learning about your strengths and innate nature.
While I find that to be a valid and maybe one of the most important ways astrology can be used, I personally do not think that I will be content to leave it at that. However great one's imagination and empathy might be, I think the individual is fairly limited in terms of the scope of their experience. Sure, I can try to imagine what it might feel like to have a Sun/Saturn conjunction, but until I see it first hand or someone is generous enough to relate their experience to me, I'll never really know what that actually feels like. I've been watching the "Mastering Rahu and Ketu series" and trying to memorize what I've learned. I didn't fully understand Ketu in the 2nd and Rahu in the 8th until I saw it in my mother's chart whose motto always was "if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself". Similarly, I didn't fully understand how the Nodal axis around the 11th and 5th house could play out until a few members of this forum kindly shared their experiences with us.
Secondly, personally I wouldn't want to draw conclusions based on what I've seen in either only my own chart or the charts of people I know well. I cannot be objective about myself nor about those I know and love. Maybe objectivity is an illusive and illusory goal within this pursuit to begin with. My Moon (subjective experience) is also not great, so that's not something I can rely on. Before studying Vedic astrology, I did two years of intensive study in Western astrology. Two of the people I learned from gave me examples of what I do not want to do. One changed the house system she was using purely on what she observed in her husband's chart. The other would constantly refer to what she had learned from her teachers, but it became clear that she had not done her own research. I have seen both fail with their predictions. Maybe I just have the fate of their predictions failing on me and they are both spectacular astrologers otherwise. Who knows! But ever since learning that, I decided I wanted to do it differently.
Lastly, I have an Avastha in my chart that makes me regularly attract combative people and easily get roped into arguments (I admit, I actually do enjoy some of the verbal sparring). I have been connecting with people from other traditions and even people who study Vedic astrology with other teachers. Whenever I do talk about why I use the tropical rather than the sidereal zodiac, why I use technique x, I want to eventually be rock solid in my knowledge. So whenever someone says "That's not true. Parashara never said that.", I can know in my heart of hearts that he did, because I read it with my own eyes and I saw it reflected in 30 charts. I should also note that I have Mercury conjunct Rahu. So maybe I'll never feel secure in what I know.
Anyway, thank you for pointing out that very important use of astrology. I completely agree with you and will sure keep using it for those purposes and hopefully also eventually do my own research.
Angela
Here's another thought I had I forgot to include in my post.
I've been looking at two charts with the Nodes around the 2nd and 8th house. This got me thinking about what the 2nd house means and what I have learned so far. It's the house of our material resources and the skills we have to take care of our responsibilities as well as of those we are responsible for. Shouldn't it follow that any skill we develop, any material resource we gain should be used for our own benefit and the benefit of others? And doesn't that also mean that whatever planets are in good Avasthas in our charts aren't just there for our own enjoyment, but rather to be used to help others, to carry greater burdens or take more responsibility where others can't? I obviously don't have answers to those questions. But those are some things I have been thinking about out. If I spend this time learning about astrology and I find it to be helpful, shouldn't I eventually help others with what I've learned?
@angela-wilson Being objective is possible and is not an illusory goal. To become objective, one needs to distance oneself from the subject. It needs trust and patience.
It took me 3 years to understand my own Rahu-Ketu placements. The understanding came slowly but gradually. The fog was lifting because I was focused on trying to understand what I was feeling and what the course was saying, and trying to figure out why there was a polarity. Every shift cleared my mind more and I saw things, people, situations, astrology, through new eyes. I kept going back over and over and saw the same things from new perspectives, until I could move on from them without any emotions attached.
Ernst says that even though he knew about Rahu and Ketu and had been guiding others about it, it wasn’t until he went through the maturation periods himself that he understood it better.
I am focused on Avasthas at the moment through the Cards of Truth system. The cards change every 52 days, and I have been paying attention to them and the way the cards and the Avasthas play out for the past 6 months. I watch how I feel and think every day. I have become the subject of my observation.
Once I know how it works, how can I not help others? But as is the protocol in aeroplanes, I am following the motto of “use the oxygen mask on yourself first before you help others”. We will always help others whatever level we are at, even if we are not using astrology, or even if we don’t say a word. Smile at someone and you have lit their whole world up!
You said you have a combative Avastha. It looks like you are gearing up for a fight too. Now that you know about it, is it possible to look at it another way and question why you are combative and if by becoming aware of it, can you catch yourself before you lose yourself in the drama?
I am not saying stop doing whatever you are doing, because that is what you are meant to do. But is it possible to change the reason for following that course of action, and diffuse the ‘combativeness’ of the Avastha by being ok with following that path by giving it a gentler reason?
So, if you were reading someone else’s chart, you would say you have a combative Avastha and that is why things are happening to you. If you understand how to overcome it, you might be able to guide them on how to overcome it so their life becomes less stressful and combative.
Just some thoughts....
I'm glad this approach works for you! I think we both just may have somewhat different ways of looking at things and different goals we are trying to achieve. I see merit in your arguments, but I feel my path is going to take me in a different direction.
I wish you all the best!
@angela-wilson That’s ok. As I had mentioned earlier, it might not be everyone’s cup of it, but I was just offering another perspective ????
And I really appreciate you sharing your perspective! I think we're ultimately getting at the same thing, but from different angles ????.
I also want to stress that I feel focusing on one's own chart is a worthy goal in its own right. I'll definitely keep doing this! I spend so much time throughout the day thinking and rethinking - I can only imagine the depth of your insights, if you've been doing it for years. I'm only a baby in terms of my studies, which is why I truly do appreciate hearing other people's perspectives who have been doing this for much longer and are much more knowledgeable and experienced than me!
You reminded me of how important it is to keep at it and deep-dive into my own chart. At the same time, reading your posts helped me gain clarity over what it is that I want. So please know that your voice and thoughts are appreciated and were very helpful!
@manisha I can relate to this. I have only been studying this system for 11 months and the last four months I have not even watched any classes. I have been learning the most from watching my own avashtas and R/K axis play out, learning how to navigate and shift what needs to shift, and also observing this in the charts of my family members. It feels I am in conversation with the universe through the eyes of this system. Something will happen in my life, or someone around me, and I will have an aha moment of, 'oh, this is the universe showing me this astrological thing in action through this person, or through myself." It is a beautiful dance of synchronicity.
Thank you for sharing how you have been learning and seeing the Avasthas and the Nodes in action!
I love the way to described it as a beautiful dance of synchronicity. Maybe it does just take time and I'll learn exactly as much as I'm meant to learn, at the pace I'm meant to and will help who I'm meant to.
It's just so hard for this Mars in Cap to accept that I am not the doer and just have a karma yogi attitude.
@rhiannon It’s wonderful when that happens, isn’t it?
For me, I am watching my mind playing its games. If anyone is interested in watching soap operas, there is none better than the mind and its conversations, its excuses, its reasonings - to want, to not want, to have, to not have, the shame, the guilt, the anger, the sadness, the regrets. Nothing compares to this drama anymore.
The question that I am now asking myself is how much of this is mine and how much am I picking up from others?
Angela,
A few ideas to add to yours, to help you get started reading for strangers once you have your basics covered and are ready to take the plunge:
1. Decide what type of "clients" you'd like to read for, and maybe try them all:
a) clients that just know their Sun signs and a few others things, like the fact there are 12 zodiac signs and the word Ascendant makes them confused. This type of clients are usually open and very grateful to know why is their life like that and how can they make their life better or more difficult. Technical words like "aspects" only confuse them. You'll know they appreciated your simple counseling because they'll come back.
b) clients that think they know a lot of astrology because they've been to many astrologers and they are still unhappy, looking for more and more and better readings. After you tell them something about their charts, they'll say they already know that. Then you'll start feeling worthless cause you didn't outdo/outsay the previous astrologer. You need to stay confident with them, but it's hard in the begining. They'll come back a few times, until you too are "failing" them.
c) forum and group clients know a bit or a lot themselves, and it becomes a bit competitive as to who knows more, they'll even correct you and want to read for you too, cause they know more. This is great to get you to improve and make friends and keep you on your toes, but these aren't usually return clients because they are busy themselves building their own practice, which takes time and hard work.
2. Decide how you'd like to provide the readings:
a) in writing via email (non interactive)
b) in person
c) over the phone
d) online "live"
e) voice or video recorded reading sent to them (non interactive)
3. Decide what types of readings you feel comfortable to start with, you can always add more and try more after:
a) birth chart readings - using whatever techniques you know
b) predictions
c)....
d)...
4. Decide how you'd like people to know you offer services:
a) word of mouth (that's always best) - that takes time
b) build a website
c) social media: open a YouTube channel, Instagram account or other social media, Facebook
d) paid advertisement
e) sharing flyers locally
5. Decide what type of payments you'll be able to accept, and how. Yes, in the beginning you won't need it, if you'll do FREE readings. (By the way, if you offer "practicing on charts" clients may feel like you're just testing on them. If you call it "free readings", clients may feel like they are getting something valuable and that they owe you). When you'll accept online payments, it might be a good idea to set up a little "disclaimer" as to make it clear if you do refunds and for what reasons. Don't go overboard like some people I've seen (me????). I also know some great Astrologers and Teachers that have never had a disclaimer because they have awesome people skills for troubleshooting and problem solving.
Just to clarify, these are just a few ideas from my personal experience. I am not saying it is the best way to go, nor that it is wise. If you are open to it, more experience astrologers and also directly/indirectly advice on best practices to get you started.
Other than that, just relax and have fun with it! It is a very responsible thing to read people's charts, so morals and ethics are important even if in many countries it isn't a "regulated" profession, but we have to love it! Why would I want to read a chart and hate doing it?
Thanks a million for taking the time to write up such a detailed response and providing us with such a comprehensive guide on how to find your niche! This is immensely helpful.
The reason I struggle so much with these questions is that I am actually not trying to become a professional astrologer. I have so much respect for all of you who do this really important and difficult work. Personally, I don't think I am cut out to do this professionally or will ever get to that level of skill. So I don't know if I'll ever charge or want to formally offer readings to people as a service. I certainly am not trying to make money with this right now or trying to market myself as a real astrologer. But I still want to develop my skills, practice my techniques, and enjoy my hobby at a higher level (I think you can still want to be fairly good at your hobby). (It would also love to help other people the way I've been helped by it, if at all possible.)
If this was any other hobby, say painting or weight-lifting, all I'd have to do is sit down and draw/paint or hit the gym 3 times a week and lift progressively higher weights. Both of those only require me to be disciplined and keep at it. I can develop the skills on my own. Since astrology deals with people's lives and behavior, it's sort of impossible to practice that in a vaccuum. It seems to me that a considerable part of how professionals like you and Ernst developed their skills was by analyzing other people's charts and counseling them. I know I won't be the next Ernst or Mirela ???? , nor am I trying to be. My short-term goal is to learn to use the Avashtas really well. That's really what I am trying to do right now. Get a solid knowledge of all the Avashtas.
This seems to only be possible if read other people's charts. In order to read other people's charts (A), I need to offer that as a service (B). In order to offer reading people's charts a service (B), I need to be know my techniques and astrology really well (C). In order to develop my skills and knowledge and know astrology really well (C), I need to practice reading people's charts (A). It's sort of like I a chicken and the egg situation. I can't get better, unless I read people's charts.
Anyway, maybe I just need to accept that since this is a hobby, I'll just have to be an amateur and won't ever be as good as I would like.
Thank you for your help, time, wisdom!!!
@angela-wilson
You’re welcome. I’m still learning too! This isn’t the type of field where I can say I have it all figured out in a few years time. I still consider myself a new astrologer and I’m grateful for Ernst’s teachings and for all the forum advice and friendships made here.
I think for me too, it started as an unexpected hobby, curiosity about 8-9 years ago, when I was heart broken over a relationship that I myself ruined ooopsie. My life changed after stumbling upon Ernst’s teachings a few years after, and little did I know my path will take such a sudden change and I will fall in love with astrology as if it had always been part of me and a huge missing link in my life. It inspires me every day, so the rest will just fall into place as it’s meant!
I assumed you were trying to practice on charts and then slowly build clientele. It does happen that I get carried away in my own excitement ????. Sorry about that.
Well, I encourage you to follow your dream and if your dream is to do this just as a hobby and be good at it, then the right people will just find their way towards you.
I love that. Thank you for sharing your story! I've heard a few times that "astrology chooses you", which I really like. You never know why things happen when they do, but in retrospect even things like heartbreak might end up setting you on a life-changing path. It's so inspiring to hear about that! I myself only turned to astrology two and a half years ago. I finished graduate school, then spent two years applying for jobs, networking, etc. in my field and just could not make things happen. I now have a job, but I'm so thankful I was even set on this path of studying astrology. I can't believe I'm learning from such an awesome teacher and get to connect to people who love the same thing as me. It blows my mind!
I also love that even after having studied for a few years, there always seems to be something new to discover (just like Manisha said, a lifetime isn't enough to learn everything about oneself).
I still really appreciated the guidelines you took the effort to write in detail. They are so helpful, even when you don't set out to do it profesionally. Who knows what'll happen! Plus, now others who are trying to set up their business can refer to this.
Thank you!
@mirela Those are great guidelines! Thanks for sharing! At this time, am doing video recording with email/online conversation if questions/follow up (which means I spend way too much time on a chart ???? but am good with that), donation only, word of mouth and focusing on middle life crisis/stuck in the rut (aka Rahu/Ketu maturation), mostly women who have little to no knowledge of astrology (also I've been attracting parents who want to understand their kid better lately). I know Varshaphala and I like to bring it up for the "vibe" and focus of the years ahead but am not interested in specializing in predictions. That being said, I've given some thoughts about "teaming up" with an astrologer (or astrologers) that does and set up a referral system. Down the road... I think it's a great way to support people in several areas of their life and interests without having to do it all yourself. ????
@mona I was wondering if you would be ok with sharing how long you studied/trained before you felt comfortable charging a donation?
@rhiannon I’ve been studying for 12 months and for about 9 months with Ernst. That’s all I have been doing (it’s kind of my “full time job”, well, apart from motherhood!). I’ve also studied yogic numerology and certified after 2 years (though I was working full time at that time and am using it as a complement to astrology). I actually don’t charge a donation per say. I’ve been telling people I do it for free but I was asked if I would accept donations or when I would start charging so they can refer people to me. For what it’s worth, am very uncomfortable with the process (even receiving a donation) but as Ernst says “we are entitled to our actions, not the fruits of our actions” (or something like that:). So I go with that mantra to keep me sane!
@mona Thanks for sharing. Yes I think people value the reading more when there is something exchanged too as far as donations go.
Love your idea about referrals.