Hi!
I currently have the horoscope of a man whose Mars is agitated due to a conjunction with the Sun in the sign of Leo. I noticed how unemotionally he spoke about how his father used to take him hunting and to slaughter animals as a child. It’s clear that in such circumstances, emotional desensitization eventually takes place. However, I had the impression that this desensitization was present very early on, as he recounted it completely nonchalantly and without any sign of being affected. At that time, I didn’t yet know that his Mars was agitated.
He also mentioned that he feels physically very robust or, in his own words, that he doesn’t feel anything—he said this literally. For me, these are indications of this agitated Mars. This desensitization, both emotional and physical, seems to go hand in hand with a need for more extreme experiences in order to feel anything at all.
He is also currently dealing with legal issues and has a case pending against him. He is heavily involved with motorcycles, and I assume he was either speeding or did something reckless.
He also has difficulties with superiors and, apparently, with colleagues. I double-checked this in my notes from a video about what an agitated Mars signifies.
My question here is, as this hasn’t been entirely clear to me: how can someone with such a disposition develop greater sensitivity? How can someone overcome this emotional desensitization over the course of their life? This seems to me to be a very challenging hurdle.
Thank you very much.
I wouldn’t say that this conjunction makes someone desensitized. I have this and know many with it. Speaking from personal experience, I’ve actually used that phrase when younger “I don’t feel anything” but in fact it was the opposite. What happens is that there are so many feelings and very intense, which becomes overwhelming and maybe sometimes confusing at times. In this case, it would seem to be desensitizing for the person. But I would say that it’s more about control and controlling what feelings if any are shown, expressed and shared. I like to think about it in comparison to the Moon Ketu union.
The Sun as well as the Moon are self factors being the Atma and manas. These luminaries are very important for understanding the inner workings of the person. We know that the Atma is the true source, the soul that produces the experiences needed based on what’s in the manas or mind of the person. The Atma gives life and shines a spotlight on what’s created within the manas based on desires and impressions or samskaras. These luminaries work very closely together always tied in objective.
Circling back to the original point, we know that Ketu and Mars are linked since Ketu is like Mars. So we can see how both Ketu and Mars would lead to be controlling. Hopefully you can see the connection that I’m trying to show between Moon-Ketu and Sun-Mars.
So I would say that the Sun-Mars is a deeply passionate person who tries to control how that is expressed. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t depending on all the other factors in the chart. That’s how I would judge it and describe it.
@suzanstars And, as we know, Mars is logic. I enjoy how logically you went about this. It absolutely makes sense, when you compare it to Ke/Mo.
Staffan
@staffan yes! And also, Mars is our strength of character and shows where we put our energy, where we put our discipline and are willing to train ourselves. It shows (like the Sun) our will power.
@suzanstars Thanks so much for your explanations! I appreciate that a lot and it makes so much sense! This person also has Moon conjunct Saturn and Ketu in Scorpio Lagna...Jupiter in the 4th in Aquarius
I am referring to Ernst’s teachings from his video on Sun Agitates Mars. In this video, Ernst explains how individuals with this disposition often find themselves shouldering extreme responsibilities or functioning under immense pressure at a very early age. This leads to an inability to properly distinguish between emergency and non-emergency situations, resulting in a kind of desensitization.
For example, many extreme athletes or individuals who put themselves in high-risk situations often exhibit this pattern. They seek out extreme experiences in order to feel something, as their threshold for perceiving danger or excitement has been set unusually high. This kind of overstimulation rewires their sense of sensitivity and emotional response, pushing them toward increasingly extreme circumstances just to reconnect with a sense of intensity or aliveness. I hope I understood correctly…
@tamarap so Moon is starved by Saturn conjunction, which shows a lot of pain and separation trauma early on from 0-1. This in itself will be damaging to the child mind. This can lead to what you described. Depends also on what the Moon is focusing on in his chart. If it’s starving planets more than delighting, it will basically show someone who is too focused on the outside and not in internal happiness and living his svadharma.
@suzanstars I am aware that with the shamed Moon, Saturn and Ketu in Scorpio and the Lagna, there are karmic and intergenerational issues that can deeply unsettle the individual. I know that this concerns fully accepting one’s own ideas and feelings and not having to be ashamed of them, as well as learning to follow one’s inner voice more and more. Especially the combination of Ketu and the Moon can lead the person to control the spectrum and nature of their emotions very strongly, and with the shame, maintaining an outward persona that is not in alignment with their inner self—so, as you said, this could also lead to appearing 'hardened' and insensitive to certain things. I agree with you there. I now wonder how this plays out in interaction with the agitation of Mars through the Sun—whether the two influences can even be differentiated and seen separately. If you understand what I mean. I know that the person, as the middle child of three, didn’t receive enough attention from his mother because his sister was born shortly after. He says he was never truly understood by his mother—and indeed, he has very clever but highly complex and intellectual, unconventional ideas about society and life, which are probably not only due to the penetrating intellect of his Scorpio Moon but also due to his Aquarius Jupiter. He claims his father competes with him. He is a very charismatic person with leadership qualities but often clashes with those around him. I also now see that the planetary placements in his Scorpio Ascendant are a major focus and area of development.
@tamarap It would be interesting also to see where this agitation of Mars is taking place. Is it closer to the 4th than the 10th? That could also give a big clue as to the problem of this man. If it's in the 4th or closer to the 4th, both Sun and Mars will have no or little directional strength and will therefore act in inappropriate ways for the situation. Also, maybe look at what's 10th from Sun.
@suzanstars Hi Suzan, good points, Thank you! Mars is on the 9th cusp, so closer to 10th. His Mars (and Sun) is delighted by Jupiter in the 4th house to nearly 60 Varupas (but also starved by Mercury to 60 beside the agitation). 10th from the Sun is 7th house and cusp in Taurus with Rahu. I guess His strong Jupiter in the house of emotional foundation, home and mother is doing a great deal in helping managing shamed Moon with Saturn and Ketu in Scorpio Lagna.
So the question in my mind now about this case you have with this man is what’s hurting the Sun-Mars, if any? What about the Moon? How’s it doing? The 4th house?
Maybe needless to say, but I do it anyway: I encourage you to approach this theme carefully and make the necessary questions that will tell you whether he´s ready to open up or not. I also believe that it might be hard for a woman, unless, she´s elder and really experienced, to help a man with this theme, since it´s possible related to sexual violence and she might be triggered herself. Just raising a red flag, nothing more.
Staffan
@staffan Thank you Staffan, don´t mind to explain a bit more about the why of what you write here above?
@tamarap Indeed. First a reflection of Ryan Kurczak, Ernst´s old pupil and friend, comes to mind. He speaks sp,ewhere about the role of the astrologer and stresses out the fact that we don´t have the training to work with psychological trauma.
Also, to my experience, female therapists/advicers far too often lack awareness about the weak spots of the male psyche and how the trust to women may be harmed by the experience to open up to a female thearapist/advicer and end up feeling misunderstood or judged. This has happened to me sy least three occasions that I can think of (although I have had very good experience by female therapists/advicers too); no big deal since my Moon is really robust and in the 4th house. But I can see how the painful experience could shun men more vulnerable away from women forever. I just call, as a man and from my male experience, you and every woman to be aware about men´s vulnerabilities and that the risks poking the inner bear are high.
And of course, if it´s the therapist/advicer who insists on opening the can of worms, rather than the client wanting it, then the potential harm is much bigger, of course.
I suggest that you don´t take it as criticism, which it wasn´t. And also please don´t take it personal, but realize that this is a general discussion that we should have. Not only about female therapist working with men, of course, but also the other way round, and in general concerning work ethics. With the lajjitaadi avasthas we approach the role of a therapist, without haven been given the ethical instruments that therapist have. For example,
a therapist is requiered to go assist in therapy him/herself, which if anything indicates that this is an issue that we should take seriously.
Staffan
@tamarap I´m sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable. 😑 This should be discussed in a much broader way, I think. Maybe I´ll initiate a discussion in another thread.
Staffan
@staffan hi :)!
You didn’t make me feel uncomfortable, it’s just that I don’t agree with what you wrote. In a broader sense, yes, but not in my case. You need to sense how ready and open a person is to talk about these things. You have to approach it with a lot of empathy and love, you can feel it in the conversations. Since this is not a typical astrology conversation where you only see a person once but someone you have to interact with more often, you can sense it more gradually. I agree with you that, in general, these topics require a great deal of sensitivity and tact. And I also think it’s very good to discuss this in-depth. Thank you for your input
Well, as you know, we have to look at the chart as a whole. It would be interesting to see what else is in there. I know someone with sun/mars conjunct in Aries in the 6th. Scorpio Lagna. If I see an imbalance is that he tries 'too hard'. But it is not very imbalancing as I see it in him. But, he has a Mo/Ju conjunction in Sagg, Ve in Taurus too, which gives him really beautiful, warm qualities. He is a natural leader, very dynamic.