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House placements and yogas within orb


Marina1
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Hi Ernst and all!

The Sun is at 04:57 of Pieces and Mars is at 27:05 of Aquarius. They are supposed to be in neutral relationship (2\12). But according to Tajika Aspects Within Orb table, they are forming an inimical yoga within orb as if they were conjunct. 
Is it beaucse they are so close in degrees? But then again, such proximity should affect their aspectual value and not the type of their relationship: F, E or N.
I see it again and again in different charts. Is there a special rule for cases such as this? 

Greetings, Marina

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Mirela
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Hi Marina, yes. It is because they are within each other's orbs. Mars has an 8 degree org, and Sun a 15 degree orb. The 2 of them in your example, are about 8 degrees from forming a perfect conjunction. Conjunctions, Oppositions and Squares are considered inimical. In your case Sun moving faster and separating,  doing an isharapha yoga so the aspect won't be very strong. The 2/12 neutral aspect would apply if Sun would be about 30 degrees away from Mars, as in @27 degrees of Pisces, or Mars would be in Aq. @5 degrees. Hope that helps.

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Marina1
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@mirela Thank you, Mirela. It all makes sense to me except the 30 degree rule. In the same chart, Me is also in Pie, at 17:11. Ma and Me are not 30 degrees apart, only ten. Should I interpret Me as an E to Ma, too? 

They are not within orb, so the table doesn't show it. Yet they are within combined orbs and that's also a yoga. Would it be inimical as well?

What I am mostly interested in is how we determine the relationship type. If I didn't have the table, I would say that Ma in this chart has only 1 enemy - Ju (in Leo). I wouldn't treat Su and Me as Ma's enemies since they are in 2\12. 

The rule in the manual is quite straightforward: 
"In Tajika Jyotish, the relationships of the Grahas are very
simple. Grahas in the 5th and 9th from each other or in the 3rd and
11th from each other are friendly with each other. Grahas in
conjunction, opposition or in the 4th and 10th from each other are
inimical. Grahas in the 2nd and 12th from each other or the 6th and
8th from each other are neutral." 

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Mirela
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@marina1 for Mars @ 27:05 Aquarius and Mercury @17:11 Pisces, there is no conjunction or open inimical relationship because they are 20 degrees apart (or 340 degrees if you count from Mercury). The orb of activity for Mars is 8 degrees and for Mercury is only 7 degrees, there is no aspect and no yoga they form, I dont think.

The aspect 1-7 Mars Aquarius - Jupiter Leo is openly inimical if they are within orb. Since Mars is @27:05 Aq. , Jupiter would have to be anywhere between approx. 19 degrees Leo and 5 degrees Virgo to make an inimical aspect. 

Yes, the quote is correct, thats is how you determine the relationship type. The orb of activity of each planet is taken into consideration in order to decide if the aspect is formed or not. Just saying something is in enemy just because it is in 1-7 position doesn't qualify it. A planet can be in the very beginning of the sign and the other one right at the end of the opposite sign, in which case they will not be considered enemies cause they can't form an aspect based on the orb of activity.

So yes, don't treat Mercury as having an inimical aspect with Mars, but the Sun does form an inimical aspect, even though it is weaker aspect and the Sun is separating (isharapha) from Mars.

Maybe someone else can jump in and give you a different perspective.

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Ernst Wilhelm
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this is a confusing point. The relationship is based on the sign position. Not the aspect orb. The question is, should we pay attention to an aspect within orb that has a neutral relationship as in this example? For yogas, I don't think we should. However, if we want to look at planets influencing each other then we calculate the tajika aspects out from 0-60 and sign position does not matter for that. In those calculations, some squares are very weak actually, but they still form full fledged yogas. So these are two different things, aspect value and Tajika yogas. The only time you really need the aspect value is for finding the year lord. Most of Tajika is the yogas, so ignore neutrals.  

 

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Mirela
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@ernst Thanks, Ernst.

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Marina1
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@ernst Thank you, Ernst.

In this example I would ignore Su\Ma yoga at a glance because they are in 2\12 position IF the Tajika Aspects Within Orb table did not show their yoga as a conjunction and no longer neutral. 

In another chart, Mo is at 26:29 of Leo, Ju is at 22:42 Aqu and Sa is at 06:55 Aqu. The Mo is forming isharaphas within orb with both Ju and Sa. Since they are opposite the Mo, both should be the Mo's enemies. Yet the Table shows only Mo\Ju yoga as opposition whereas Mo\Sa yoga is shown as neutral. I wonder why. Is there any rule that says when and how the type of relationship changes when two planets form a yoga?

I also wonder if Sa stops being the Mo's E only in the context of this yoga or in general as well? Like when I analyze the Mo as the Muntha Lord in this chart should I also consider Sa its neutral? My logic and intuition say no but I decided to ask just in case. 

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Ernst Wilhelm
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In that example if they are within orb the tajika aspects table will show them regardless of whether they are in yoga or not. 

Again, the table does not show the nuetral, friend, etc. it just works with the degrees. the moon and saturn are within orb on a 150 degree aspect which is not considered in tajika. 

saturn is an enemy to the moon, but if then moon is muntha lord or lagna lord, then that means that saturn will come into the life of the person based on what saturn rules. It wont be easy because its an opposition. 

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Marina1
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@ernst Thank you!

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