Saturn in the 4th
 
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Saturn in the 4th

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Veronica
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Hi, I’m listening to the yogas audio and mentions that exalted retrograde saturn in the 4th is even worst because Saturn rules  the 8th house thus very painful- where can I find more info about it? 

why a retrograde exalted being auspicious makes it worst? 

(audio 4, around min. 12 when talking about Marilyn Monroe’s house) 

thanks

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Mirela
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An EXALTED planet is able to take care of its houses better and it's strong in fulfilling its agenda. Here Saturn owns 7th and 8th houses for Cancer Lg and it's positioned in the 4th. He'll be able to take care of those houses and will be strong in fulfilling its agenda for the 4th house.

Saturn EX is a great asset, but it is still a cruel separating planet. An EX Saturn shows focus and determination, strong attachments to goals, the person being able to succeed thru sheer perseverance and not letting themselves distracted.

For Cancer Lagna however, Parashara says Saturn is an "evil lord" because it rules 7th and 8th. That plays out as vulnerability in relationships, codependence, coldness, putting a wall up due to insecurities and lack of trust in others, struggles with finances in relationships, addictions, or gain thru some sort of loss or difficult emotional situation. 

Much of Cancer Lagna karma's are worked out in partnerships or thru chronic disease, especially diseases with emotional link because 7th house is 4th from the 4th, relating to the inner self just like the 8th does.

When Saturn is EX, the relationships tend to improve later in life and once the person gets more secure in self and able to trust others. Saturn is taking care of the house of crisis / breaks/ transformation (8th - for which he is a natural karaka) and 7th (partners, trade) and even if EX, he is a natural significator of loss and brings difficult events. Because it is EX though, the person has better chances to persevere thru all the difficulty.

Because in this case Saturn Ld of 7th and 8th, is in the 4th EX, it has a huge impact on the emotional health and inner needs and security, and can lead to unhappiness, unfulfilled needs, difficulty opening up, controlled emotional environment. I call it a "cold heart" syndrome because it's the separation that the person needs in this life. It doesn't mean the person will be happy and cheerful being so closed up. They will suffer and hopefully learn thru that suffering.

I think the main problem with the 8th Ld Saturn being EX in 4th is the fact that the person is able to just control their inner environment so well, and suffer in hiding (4th hidden houses), and even the dramatic events of 8th house can be kept private, except that some of them aren't really private - the ones that involve another person (7th).

I don't remember that video in particular, but I am wondering if that is where the "EX Retro Planet Saturn is worst" came from . It's a combination of what Saturn happens to rule, where is located, and its nature when fulfilling its agenda. I think Saturn in the 4th is generally more difficult for inner security and emotional life. When he also rules the 8th, even more so. The fact that he's EX makes it more potent to cause difficulty which translates into more suffering, but able to just resist and persevere thru it all.

 I might be looking at this wrongly...if I do, someone say something please . I am running a fever and supposedly should be in bed... but had to honor Saturn the lord of disease, so here were a few of my thoughts... 

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Manisha
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I would also add that the 4th is the foundation of life on which everything else stands on. The lagna itself is about the natural 4th house, so there will be this need of moving towards 4th house things but unable to do so because the foundation has been built on separation from understanding one’s emotional needs. This will create a desperation and bring in more psychological complexes.

Plus, being retrograde, the effects of Saturn, of separation, are felt stronger.

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Manisha
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To add to this, Libra is a sign of trade. So the planet of separation could hinder the person seeing themselves as worth something of value. Since they devalue themselves, others devalue them, and it becomes a vicious cycle. Since this started in the 4th house, the house of nurturing, their views on how to nurture themselves and others are skewed?

Just throwing a few thoughts out there. 

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Manisha
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Some more thoughts....

Can one have trade in 4th house things? It is the house of nurturing, where Jupiter is exalted. It is the giver without any expectations. Jupiter is debilitated in the sign of Saturn. So would this add another layer of it being hard of having Saturn exalted in the 4th sign?

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tuyetv
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Per my resource book that i go to often it said the following about Saturn in Libra:

Saturn is considered well placed or exalted in Libra. If Saturn in Libra falls in an angle it forms a Sasa Yoga, indicating a highest manifestation of Saturn's qualities

Favorable: Clever, focus, well organized, systematic, presents ideals logically, legal defender, steady in love, conventional, faithful, self-sufficient, hard worker, practical, success with foreign connections, land, agriculture, things get better over the years

Unfavorable: Restrictions in love and partnerships, delayed commitments or marriage, unaffectionate partner, little romance, ruled by loved ones, does not do well with uncertainty, controlling in love, overwork, fearful of change, wants too much definition

Saturn in the 4th house:

Favorable: Conservative, takes responsibility for family matters, relationship with family and mother improves over time, likes a simple and orderly home, enjoys quiet and natural surroundings, benefits from land and foreign connections, slow and steady growth in fixed assets

Unfavorale: Slow emotional growth, blocked or interrupted education, inexpressive, distressed, joyless, fearful, restrictions with family and with mother, trouble with home and vehicles, health problems as a child, lung and heart problems, cancer, reproductive problems, breast ailments    

 

  tuyet

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Veronica
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@tuyet thank you;)

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Manisha
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@tuyetv

This sounds like a good resource book to look at extremes to understand the planets and houses better and bring them into balance. Could you share the name of the book? I am trying to be lazy, but with AK Sun in Gemini, it might be a hit and miss 🤣 

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tuyetv
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@manisha  excellent book and i have used it over and over but hard to find "Beneath a Vedic Sky" by William Levacy. Ernst has said the same thing that this is a great book. I found it just by chance several years ago and have thought this is a really great book for beginners and since Ernst confirmed it recently, then i know it is a great resource book. It is hard to find because i dont think they publish this book any longer since the author died several years ago so i definitely treasure my book

tuyet

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Mirela
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@tuyetv thanks for sharing. It's useful as a starting point. I'll try to get my hands on the book, it sounds like a good read.

I don't know that I would've been able to answer Veronica's question by using those references though. We need rulerships for that.

None of the favorable or unfavorable effects listed prompt me about the crisis and possible ups and downs due to Saturn ruling the 8th.

It treats Saturn in Libra as EX - but these statements are for Saturn in Libra EX for any of the 12th houses

It looks like that maybe getting solved by the next paragraphs when placing Saturn in a house, but Saturn in the 4th favorable/unfavorable can be in any of the 12 zodiac signs depending on the Lagna, and in any of the possible 9 dignities.

The tendency is to combine the 2 and get a meaning and I feel that in doing so, I might miss something really important because Saturn EX in Libra in the 4th is specifically letting me know that the Lord of the 7th and 8th is Saturn and it is in the 4th Exalted. 

Maybe rulership is treated in a different part of the book. Looking forward to read it.

Thanks.

 

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Veronica
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@mirela yes exactly- I’ve read about the results in the 4th house before -  but would like to know the effects produced by being an exalted 8th lord

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tuyetv
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@mirela A reference source is exactly just that a reference source. It is not an answer to all questions but just a starting point. My answer was to Manisha's question regarding Saturn in the 4th. I simply provided a general answer from my reference book. Many questions posted on this website require contemplation and connecting the points to derive at an answer, and the beauty of it all is there may be one question with many answers from various people depending on how they connect the dots and their understanding of astrology

 

tuyet

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Mirela
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@tuyetv copy paste answers aren't my thing and I mistakenly thought you were answering to Veronica, but it sounds like we were answering to 2 different colleagues which wasn't clear from the post. I apologize if I offended you or anyone in any way.

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tuyetv
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@mirela  None taken Mirela... I have always enjoyed reading your answers as they are very well thought out. thank you for your contribution

 

tuyet

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Manisha
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@tuyetv

Thanks, Tuyet. The name rings a bell. When I eventually return home, I will have to see if I have a copy in my stash.

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