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Pluto Card and Saturn Card  

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Leela
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Hi Ernst,

I have a couple of questions. 

1) With reference to Pluto Card: 

In the earlier video about the 13 cards from the Birth Spread you said the below with regards to Pluto: "Whatever that card is.. prepare for it to be destroyed. IT does so with a self-preservation instinct"

In the Foundation Course you said: "Its the card that is going to change whats wrong with you"

So initially you mentioned the card itself is something we won't get even though our ego might cling to it. In the second you said the card is the agency by which something in you will change. The latter implies to me that we will get the card, or rather holding on to that card is a good thing because it will change you (or rather we have no choice in the matter)... which is the opposite to the earlier course where you said there is no point clinging to the card because it will never be worth it, it will always go away. 

May I ask what led you to change your mind about it? Or is it that you haven't changed your mind, you've seen it play out either way, so it just depends on the case/card/person? 

2) With reference to Saturn Card: 

A slightly different doubt here. You've said it's a card that is a fate we have to bear to confront the thing inside i.e. the external of it is in some way ruined (or we don't get), so a truer point of view with regards to those matters can be reached. I.e. in some way, we don't get to be the card, because we're not the card. Yes? 

Why then do you say when there is a King on Saturn, those people do make the appropriate kingly sacrifices? Doesn't it follow that one some level, they wouldn't make appropriate sacrifices... or rather their sacrifices wouldn't give them appropriate gains (or be destroyed at some point). To be more specific: their getting to be a king, or be seen as a King should be destroyed in some way (externally), because they're supposed to understand their need for a kingdom and external dependancy on it from within, not from the outside. Isn't it? // Especially when you compare it to the cards from the block ruled by the King- for example you've said a 9 on Saturn card limits them, however 9 also has a similar focus on sacrifice as the King. So shouldn't the interpretation be similar (even if the King has more power to it)

Thanks!

 

 

 

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Ernst Wilhelm
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The goal of pluto is to destroy our ego. The ego is such a tricky thing, the way that the ego limits our way of being are so many - form making us have a self worth issue to making us do something noble for a reason that is not true to ourselves, to not allowing ourselves to have something for a noble reason or due to some self esteem issue. It just gets in their and make us stuck. So pluto has to be just as tricky. so you never know just what he is going to need to do to get the job done. I have seen pluto give wonderful things, but those wonderful things are just what the ego is going to freak out about and cause some limitation of the ego to be removed. So it may be something that pluto takes away that there is an unhealthy attachment to, it may be something that pluto takes that there is a healthy attachment to but its time for a person to grow out of that, or it may give something that forces the person to let go of some ego limitation. Again, ego is an incorrect idea of ourselves, so forcing us to let go of some incorrect idea of ourselves. Either way, the card and the person get transformed simultaneously. 

 

Saturn card is what we have to let go off, which stops being a part of our life. BUt face cards always energize the card they are in, so a face card in the saturn card is something that we need do one last final time. Saturn is the end, a face card there shows, you have to do this to finish. 

 

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Leela
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@ernst
Thank you so much for your patient replies! The Pluto Card is much clearer to me now. 

Regarding Saturn Card- Isn't that true of Saturn in general, though? I.e it is something that needs to be done one last time for everyone, but some cards will do it better, while will cause more dismay and thus get more delayed- yes? (also depending on the whole spread's trajectory, of course)

 

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Rhiannon
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I have Seven of Hearts as my Pluto card. My biggest ego transformations have occurred through the end of relationships, careers and ego identities. Mostly, relationships that I had strong emotional attachment to. Five years ago I stopped talking to my mom and most of my family. I have no doubt that Pluto ended those relationships because my ego was attached in so many unhealthy ways. The Seven of Hearts always gives me something better eventually, I just have to not focus on the loss of something else and put my attention to the new thing that came in. 

 

As far as my Saturn card, I do not understand it as well. It is the Ace of Clubs so I am not sure what I have to let go of in regards to that. Maybe old ideas and beliefs that were once new, or old businesses/careers...

 

 

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Manisha
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@rhiannon  To walk your Ecliptic Path, you needed the Ace of Clubs - new information, new inspiration. But your Rahu card is the Q of Clubs. That is nurturing and growing the information and the inspiration through change. I believe you are going through your Rahu maturation. To give an example - Recently you had said that you had stopped watching more videos (Saturn Ace of Clubs) and allowing yourself the time to experience what you have already learnt (moving towards your Rahu Q of Clubs).

Just curious - does your Pluto card fall in your Jupiter card or the 2/4/6 placements?

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Rhiannon
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@manisha Ah! That is a good example about the stopping watching the videos being Saturn on the Ace of Clubs!

I do feel like I work that way with studies and creativity. I have huge bursts of enthusiastic energy that is a bit maniacal lol (6 of Clubs) and I devour a ton of information (in this case Ernst's videos) and then I stop completely and think about it for a few months + and let the more organic experience arise from life itself. So cool that that is Queen of Clubs. 

Yes, I think my Pluto falls in my Jupiter card (King of Spades). Pic attached for confirmation.

I got a BC reading with Laura Barat last month which was an amazing learning experience for me. Here are the notes I took on what she said about the King of Spades card:

 

"King of Spades/5th Card

The 5th card = means averted or an opportunity is missed. But in your case it is not missed. When you have an Ace, 10, or face card in the 5th position that is a good placement because you do not miss the opportunity. They do well in ANY position.

Ace, a 10, or a face card do well in any position.

So you will notice in your 3, 5, and 10 position you have good cards that are going to work for you rather than hinder you.

The ecliptic energy goes to the #5 card =

King of Spades - is a loner and hermit card, it is the inner journey (the eights) - understanding our traumas and past lives, why we have certain habits.

A king in the position can get rid of all the obstacles and then the energy will flow to the King card which is the 7 of hearts."

    

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Manisha
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@rhiannon  It looks like your Pluto card is falling in the 6th position which is the Venus card and has the 12th house. The Venus card in turn falls in the Sun card which has the 3rd and 4th house. Letting go of emotional attachments that have served their purpose to find new things to attach to emotionally that help with stable growth.

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Manisha
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@ernst

Posted by: @ernst

Saturn card is what we have to let go off, which stops being a part of our life.

What about when Rahu falls in the Saturn card? I am assuming that it would stop being a part of our life after Rahu maturation and not before then? If Rahu does not fall in the Saturn card, does that stop being a part of our life around Saturn maturation?

Or perhaps, it is something that we are meant to let go of, but a bad Avastha makes us hold on to it until Rahu maturation?

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Ernst Wilhelm
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no, any card that has rahu is much less a part of our life and takes longer to get as rahu is a delaying factor, saturn is also a delaying factor, so its a double wammy and the person gets more of the saturn card as they get older. 

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Manisha
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@ernst  To make sure I understood the concept properly -

The Saturn card is limitations. So we use that card until it becomes a crutch and limits us. Then it is time to let the ego die and allow the Saturn card to fall away and move into Rahu.

But when Rahu is present in the Saturn card, the person does not know how to use the card properly. So they haven’t even been able to use it to it’s full potential. Once the internal shift happens, they are better able to use that card and also get the Rahu card in the process - both things at once.

Have I got this right?

Either way, it is the death of the ego that helps move us forward into the Rahu card. 

So we can still use the Saturn card but not in a limiting way, is that correct?

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