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Effects of Debilitated Dispositor of both Sun & Moon


Silvia
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Hello Ernst, 

I know how important the dispositors are and I was wondering if both Sun and Moon have their dispositor debilitated, could the person show some signs of borderline personality disorder?

I have a young man's chart with Moon in Aries (alone), Sun in Scorpio (alone) and Mars in Cancer. He has one sign of it which is getting extremely attached to his girlfriends to the point of merging into their hobbies (if the girl paints he will take up painting so intensely; if the girl is an actor, he'll go straight into acting classes with such enthusiasm...he's done this repeatedly. He's a normal boy but you can also see that something is not totally... "normal" is not the word, but there's something off I would say. 

Anyway, I was just curious if the specific debilitation of both Sun & Moon's dispositor could be linked with borderline personality disorder. 

 

Thank you!

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Mona
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 Mona
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Hi Silvia, 

I think it depends on the houses involved, also on Rahu and Ketu. He may have Ketu joined or close to the 7th cusp, making "having a relationship (at any cost)" his security paradigm and at the detriment of being himself (Rahu in the first). Generally speaking, I think that "borderline personality disorders" type of issues involves many factors in a chart and can't be judged by a single characteristic (such as Mars being debilitated).

Mona

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Silvia
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@mona

Hi Mona, 

He has Ketu in the 5th / Rahu in the 11th. Of course, I'm not equating borderline personality disorder with any one factor, definitely not with DB Mars. But since Sun and Moon are the basis of who we are, if both have a DB dispositor that might give a personality basis issue, that could be linked with borderline, if you get other factors involved. 

His 7th Lord is the Sun, interestingly...  it might be that the unsureness of himself gets revealed more when he's involved in a relationship, but he's not a relationship chaser per se. 

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Mona
 Mona
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@silvia_gonzalez it’s also interesting to ponder why Mars is debilitated in Cancer, from what I understand, an over-identification with emotions, including fears and insecurities that could “spill” into his way of handling relationships. I guess my point was that it’s always challenging to evaluate a chart without having the whole picture but you’re probably onto something with Mars. The Lajjitaadi Avasthas of those planets are probably revealing as well.

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Silvia
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@mona Mars in Cancer is a strange placement because Mars is DB, which hurts Cancer and Moon like things like getting one's needs met. But Ernst doesn't seem to consider it such a bad placement, since Lajjitaadi wise he's delighted by the Moon... but to me, it's still a DB planet that is not gonna support the things it rules very well.

This question came about because I remember looking at Elizabeth Holmes' Chart (Thereanos creator) which has Moon's dispositor DB and Sun's dispositor in terrible shape, and that woman has a serious personality disorder, it made me wonder if it had something to do with it. Now with this man's case, I have been told strange stories fitting someone having some self/personality issue and I see the same problem with the dispositors, made me wonder if Ernst, who has seen so many health cases, had encountered something similar.  

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Mona
 Mona
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@silvia_gonzalez I remember Ernst saying that, because the Moon is a friend to Mars, it's not that bad of a debilitation indeed. I also heard Ernst talk about mental issues when both Moon and Mercury are in bad shape. He also mentioned in the Character of the Grahas that, when Jupiter and Saturn are in 4th rasi from each other and born on a Tuesday or Saturday, it can indicate mental health issues as well (especially if Moon is in a bad shape if I remember correctly). Not sure why, maybe it's a specific yoga, course that I am planning to study. Could be interesting to double-check his chart with those factors as well.

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Brooke
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Well, I'll comment since I am rather close with someone with a DB dispositor of both Sun and Moon, and Ketu in the 5th. I do often find mental issues (of the fixation variety) coinciding with Ketu in the 5th (on top of other factors of course, but it is a common thing that comes up). 

My experience is that the condition of the dispositor of the Moon plays a pretty big role in the mental/emotional fortitude of a person, even if the Moon is otherwise fine. 

So these are some difficult things to have together, and while I can't/wouldn't formally assign a disorder, I know it causes some problems. The specific problems it causes for the person I know has to do with other details in his chart. 

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Silvia
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@brooke Thank you Brooke! sorry for the super late reply. I thought this account was not working for me anymore, so I hadn't logged in. 

It's funny that you say Ketu in the 5th... this boy I was talking about also has Ketu in the 5th (I didn't mention it in my original message) so this is interesting. 

 

 

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