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Do you tell the bad predictions in a chart?

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katalina1
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Hi,

Do you think that it's better not to say the bad predictions to a person?

Do you say everything you see? What is your limit? How do you say it in order to help and not just to make the person feel doomed.  

And if you don't, why do you spare it? Do you think that if we say something bad to a person we can make him/her focus on the bad stuff and hence bring more of that same thing into their life? And if we are actually wrong, can we bring to the person some undesired effects.

Do you predict death and death of close ones?

And last but not least, do you think that predicting brings any karma to the astrologer? Or if the astrologer prescribes some remedy and the person's evil effects are diminished, does the astrologer suffer the karma of their client?

Thank you in advance.

Best regards,

Katalina

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Francesca
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Hi Katalina,

There are many different views on this. A similar question was asked last year on this forum. The posts are no longer available, but then the general consensus was to focus on what the client can change rather than what they cannot change.

Some people warned about the dangers of harming the client with too bad a prediction in the long run (by cementing a negative belief the client will adopt in the long term, such as "I am bad with money and I won't have abundance in my life"). In response to that post, Ernst wrote that he prefers focusing on the Lajitaadi Avasthas, which correspond to the air element, which is what we can change (our behavior) rather than rattling off predictions.

However, I know other Vedic astrologers whose approach is to make the prediction and then suggest remedies and behavioral changes that will soften the blow, i. e. a given specific event will happen, but only the mildest version.

I think it's up to the individual and there are probably as many approaches as there are people.

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katalina1
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@francesca-2 thanks a lot for the reply. 

Yes, that seems a sound approach to a reading. 

I personally prefer knowing the bad and worse periods because I can accept them and I feel more prepared. I feel that when you accept a situation it stops being a problem. At least psychologically. When you stop resisting, half of the problem is gone. When you know you have to suffer through something and there is nothing you can do, its easier to let go and just live more presently. Also when you know a bad event is fated you don't blame yourself, your family or whatever circumstance. 

However, it is difficult to know what is the reason a person consults with you. Most of the people come to hear something that will sooth their pain. Make them live in the future, expect for the good event. But this never solves the real problems and can't raise the consciousness either.

Maybe we just have to obstruct ourselves from telling the worst things, just because events are a matter of human error as @codydeboer mentioned or a wrong birth time. 

Or have a method to question the client beforehand and see what they seek from the reading. Do they want to develop theirselves or just want to know the facts about their life. Because I notice that many people are not even able to accept their Rahu-Ketu axis, because it is too painful and they are struggling with it their whole life. And when you tell them about it they just become hateful. 

Anyway, maybe there isn't a perfect approach to that and it has to be considered how every individual reading goes. And intuitively decide what should you behold and maybe reveal in time, if the person comes back.

@codydeboer I also have noticed that Tarot can be extremely accurate for the moment as a mirror of our current state, but it is not reliable for the long run. Not like astrology is. 

Thanks for the replies again. Any other approaches and personal touches to that matter shall be most appreciated.

Kind regards,

Katalina

 

 

 

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codydeboer
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@katalina1 Good point about tarot being really good for the moment, and astrology for the long standing things. 

And then I-ching I find is really good for showing the way or how things can change. 

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Mitryendra80
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@codydeboer I was wondering about this. Is there any resource you recommend for learning to use the I-ching in a helpful way? It goes over my head.

Thanks,

S.

 

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codydeboer
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@mitryendra80 I'll tell you what I have been doing for over 10 years. 

https://www.facade.com/iching/

I use this website, usually on my phone. I like using it on my phone so I can take a screenshot and read over it later. 

I pull an I-Ching. Then when I get the result Hexagram 29 with line 2 changing. I use google and type in the hexagram I got. Lets say "hexagram 29", then I just go though all of my go to sources from the google search for that hexagram. Typically the same sources come up every time you type hexagram + "whatever number". 

So there are a few websites in the google that I love. 

This one:

https://www.cafeausoul.com/oracles/iching/kan-abyss

And I look at line 2: 

"

Line 2:

The Abyss is dangerous = strive to attain small things only. Changes to (8) Union. There are many things in life that can appear threatening. The fear is the same whether it is related to romance or job prospects. The message is to recognize the danger but not allow it to overwhelm you in a way that makes you quit. Progress can be slow like water meeting a dam that eventually swells and overflows. Obstacles reveal your sincerity about moving forward. Small advances over time will allow you to overcome your fear and succeed. The change to Union bodes well for any difficulties you may currently be experiencing in a relationship. However, if you can enjoy the simple things, the situation may become more fulfilling."

 

The beauty of the I-Ching here, is the fucking wisdom. It help me see things about my situation and ways of dealing with it, and how the changes can happen. Sometimes I have been in the depths of despair and the accuracy and shit it will say about how to deal with my situation are like talking to a super wise ancient sage that just puts you at ease and makes sense of everything. Also for as long as I have been using it, I am always learning something new from it, its never ending. 

 

These are some of the other sources that I really like

https://divination.com/iching/lookup/29-2/

https://motheringchange.com/hexagrams/h29/

https://www.ichingmeditations.com/ching-hexagrams/hexagram-29-the-abysmal-water-kan/

All of these sites will show up in your google search. And like I said, when I find the wisdom that makes sense, I screenshot it. 

If you find there are multiple changing lines, sometimes the way I see it is where you could progress to, where things can develop or will go with the current momentum. Its all about how things can change. It depends, I use my intuition a lot with it, it doesn't necessarily have to be in a certain order, but just use your intuition to read it and it will make sense. 

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Mitryendra80
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@codydeboer Excellent. I'll definitely check it all out soon. Thanks for all the info!

S.

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codydeboer
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I think someone would have to be a real asshole to tell another person they will never have children, love, wealth, etc... especially if the interpretation of that chart is subject to human error. There are so many choices we can make in this life that could change our fate beyond our subconscious programming, the last thing we need is someone to reinforce the fate that is because of the shitty habits we came born into this incarnation with. That shit we don't even really need to predict anyways, the same old shit comes around and around again until we grow and get right.  

Beyond our choices though, some shit is just meant to happen, and its going to happen no matter what. A warning is useless if its going to happen anyways. A warning wont change the emotional impact of an external event. 

I think the best use of predictions are for fun, like what kind of spouse will I have/be attracted to. Or if someone is going through absolute shit, which I would figure that is the reason they are speaking to an astrologer, then predicting when things are going to ease off. Although, if its like 3 years from now I would keep quiet about it, lol. 

The funny thing is, I avoid astrology/tarot readings like the plague when my life is going really well. Don't want to fuck with it. Astrologer: "BTW, that new job you just got and you really enjoy, ya you are going to get fired in 3 months". Thanks you fucking asshole. 

I have noticed something. Astrology and Tarot, is totally amazing for showing what is happening right now (in fact, its mind-blowingly accurate for what is happening in the current moment, even random youtube tarot readings) , but rarely shares that accuracy for the future. The future doesn't really matter, it doesn't exist yet. It could, but its not here. 

 

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kam
 kam
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Posted by: @codydeboer

 I have noticed something. Astrology and Tarot, is totally amazing for showing what is happening right now (in fact, its mind-blowingly accurate for what is happening in the current moment, even random youtube tarot readings) , but rarely shares that accuracy for the future. The future doesn't really matter, it doesn't exist yet. It could, but its not here. 

 

I'm not sure if you've studied the Cards of Truth, but as someone who has, I find that they really do provide the missing link between Tarot and Astrology—especially when it comes to being able to make accurate predictions for the future. 

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codydeboer
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@kam I did take the course, I found for some reason or another it just didn't really resonate with me.

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Mattias
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First we have to listen to the client of course. What do they expect? Maybe they come for a Muhurta about their job, then I don´t think it´s a good idea to bring up the risk for having cancer or having been sexually abused.

That should be obvious, but unfortunately I don´t think it is.

I met a girl from Venezuela who´s aunt was a card reader in Colombia. She spent her summers in her house. Clients came and left. One day she saw a bunch of faces on the newspaper´s frontpage. "I know those men!" It was the aunt´s clients. And the men of Pablo Escobar that had been caught... Anyway, she told me that they were talking a lot about their love problem sitting there in the aunt´s kitchen, and that she hardly uttered a word during the whole session. Say no more. Being a good listener can pay off in so many ways, especially karmically I guess.

Then what I love to do, especially with the Cards of Truth, is to reverse the hard Spade indication to a positive thing: "This is a year for growth!" (I said it an hour ago to client who has 5 of Spades on her ecliptica two years in a row.) And: "After all we don´t want to face ourselves when we are 80 without having learned anything, without having lived. That would be the ultimate tragedy!" Most people are receptive for that idea I think.

Mattias

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Francesca
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@meyes 

Really great point! I remember Ernst saying that ultimately it depends on the person and the situation and as an astrologer you need to be open to your intuition so that you can tell the client what they need to hear (to me it sounded almost like being a vessel). In that sense, maybe there is no such thing as the one-size-fits-all approach to a reading.

I also love that you brought up how important it is to be a good listener.

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tuyetv
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Listening is a two-way street and it is a practiced skill. The astrologer needs to listen to the client and the client also needs to listen to the astrologer. People hear but they don't listen. When you hear it goes into one ear and it goes out on the other ear. But when you listen then you really think about it, contemplate which is a lot deeper. People come to see an astrologer because something in their life is not working. If they were happy they wouldn't come to see an astrologer, i don't think. I agree with Gwindor that if you want to make your life better you have to acknowledge there is a problem and you want to fix the problems. Astrologers we don't make the problems go away. A good astrologer can provide guidance. You the client however, can make your problems go away in many situations...

 

tuyet

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Mattias
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@tuyetv I guess the right thing is to study the client´s Jupiter, and behaviour of course, and then have the courage to say: "I don´t think you are going to take my advice..." Has to be done in a polite and diplomatic way though, of course.

What you also can do, of course, is to really simplify the reading and go to the very core of it.

 

Mattias

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tuyetv
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@meyes  Jupiter is an ether element, hearing. If that is afflicted like my relative, they hear but they don't listen. I have been studying astrology for 4 years now, and i have studied many techniques from Ernst. I learned something from each technique as not one technique will give you all the answers. I think it is a good idea when you read a chart to understand the basic foundation of a person as an individual. Just so that you know the kind of person you are dealing with. I think it takes a lot of experience to make good prediction. So i am very careful in making prediction especially when it comes to sensitive subject. You can really hurt someone....

You know when i was young i thought i know everything and one day my dad said to me you know why we have one mouth and 2 ears. So that we learn to listen more than we talk. His comments stay with me forever and now i tell the kids that. LOL...

 

tuyet

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Mattias
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@tuyetv That´s an omen, Amen!

Mattias

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katalina1
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@meyes you mean that if the person has a bad Jupiter, which stands for the astrologer for him, he will not be helped by an astrologer?

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Mattias
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@katalina1 Correct, at least if it´s debilitated. That´s my understanding of what Ernst says about it.

I have a shamed Jupiter myself and I hope I´m not bad at listening to the astrologer´s - or Guru´s - advice.

Also: If Jupiter is good in the Rasi chart but bad in a specific Varga, then we are less connected to Jupiter´s wisdom in that area of life. A DB Jupiter in D30 obliges us to seek for information about health problems from someone else, and not an astrologer. Or at least double check it...

Mattias

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Gwindor
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Some of the most difficult people to work with are those with debilitated or weak Jupiter + Mercury conjunct Saturn (especially if it's also ashamed or combust). Look out for Kapata Yoga, too. They won't listen to your advice and they may even accuse you of misleading them in some way. I've recently had a client with these two combinations who thought that I use Sidereal Zodiac, even though I CLEARLY write everywhere that I use Tropical Rashis. I gave that person comprehensive career advice and answered all her questions. Instead of just reading my report and seeing if it applies to her life with an open mind, she told me that she won't even read it and demanded a refund. I was accused of lying and misleading her.

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katalina1
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@gwindor oh, thats sad. I dont know what is Kapata yoga, but will be checking the yoga course soon. 

Thanks, that was also helpful!

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katalina1
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@meyes Thanks, that information is really substantial. 🙂

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Gwindor
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It's sad, but most people get readings for the sake of sugar-coating and ego-pleasing, not for wanting to know how to change their lives positively. Very few want to acknowledge and attempt to fix their weaknesses.

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