Hi Ernst
I'm currently watching the "Debilitation and Neecha Bhanga Raja Yogas in the Rashis" example video from the Mastering Debilitation course.
In the examples with debilitated Sun, you say that the planets the Sun is starving don't feel the effects because the Sun is sleeping. Is this true for planets that the Sun is Agitating as well? Or does this rule only apply to starvation through aspects?
For example, If Venus, Sun, and Ketu are conjunct in Libra, does Venus not feel the Agitation of the Sun because the Sun is sleeping? And is the Lajjitaa Avasta caused by the Sun and Ketu to Venus also cancelled due to the Sun being asleep?
I believe this is a rather old course and that Ernst is now using the Jagraadi avasthas differently. This is what he mentioned in another (relatively recent) thread:
There was a time I tried to adjust the Lajjitaadi influence based on the Jagrad and Balaadi avashtas. However, I now dont think that is correct. I never mix those three avashtas into one soup AT THE SAME TIME.
what i do, is i give differnet Avasthas differnet importance depending on the dasa level. Shayanaadi to maha dasa, Lajjitaadi to Antar Dasa, Deeptaadi for pratyantar, Jagrad for sookshma and Balaadi for Prana Dasa. That is how i am experimenting with it currently.
@mona My Venus isn't proud but it's svamsha, in the last few "Mritta" degrees of Libra. This makes things a bit less clouded but I still see the validity of the techniques Ernst used in these videos. Just some more things for me to mull over, I suppose.
....Ofcourse I was really just hoping for an out from my ashamed, agitated, starved, Venus....not gonna lie ????
P.S- So does this mean we don't use the Balaadi/Jagradaadi Avashtas at all in the Rashi chart? For example- an exalted Moon is technically "Mritta".
@kam You're right, Ernst introduced a new Lajjitaadi state Svamsha for planets in their own sign. Personally, I don't use Balaadi/Jagraadi, doesn't mean I shouldn't but there's enough to pay attention to already (and when you look at the chart of some rather successful people like Elon Musk who has all his planets in infant or dead (majority dead), am just not sure what to make of it. Mine are all pretty dead too (can't wait to have Elon's bank account soon ???? ???? ????). I find the idea to associate these to different dasa levels excellent though (but I don't do predictive per say so not at the top of my priority list). Tip: replace "ashamed" by "shy", maybe you'll feel better ????
@mona I don´t agree with you there Mona, it´s not about shyness, it´s shame. I´ve got it. Trust me: it´s shame.
Mattias
@meyes I know (though I've heard some astrologer talk about shyness. And I've also did a chart of someone with all planets ashamed except for her Jupiter and she is very shy but it's probably her way to manifest the shame state). That's one thing I don't have so I trust you on that one ????
@mona Could possibly manifestate that way. But as a secondary effect I´d say. Shyness due to shame. Can also go the other direction I guess, shamelessness as a compensation.
@meyes actually I forgot to mention her shaming is due to Ketu so shyness is more likely to appear (as consequence or compensation like you said) when Ketu is involved rather than Rahu or other configuration. The other reason I brought it up is that, when talking to clients, do you talk about “shame”? It’s one thing when you study and between us, we know what we are getting ourselves into but I think that, depending on who you talk to, we have to be careful with words like that. I remember when talking to her I mentioned “there may be some feelings of shame around this”. I guess it all depends on a lot of factors (she’s got a very “Cancer” chart so I had to be careful with how to address her own feelings). Just some thoughts 🙂
@mona. Very true. But of course that goes for everything in the chart; we can never tell people what they feel. In some way or another it has to come from them, even if we may help them, asking the right questions.
And of course you are right, shame is something we really try to hide away, so noone has any right to reveal the secret, like outing someone against there will. Also in many cases people are unaware about their own shame I think.
My Jupiter is Ketu shamed too and sure, there is a shyness there. But in the bottom of it, it´s still shame.
Mattias
"When Sun along with Ketu shames Venus, the individual is unable to venture out to enjoy the good things of the world."
It kind of defeats the purpose of having a Venus all together...????
...But then again it's Svamsha, so I manage ????????️
@kam I have a shamed Jupiter. No saving avasthas.
What I recommend you Kam is to feel what you have to feel. When the shame sets in - often it´s very hidden and doesn´t show up even if you ask for it; it comes when it wants to - then stay there, feel it, have a bath in the emotion. It actually sets you free.
That connection is what is causing the shame. The next line in the same paragraph holds the key to taking steps to overcome it one layer at a time.
I guess the reason why we have planets in certain Avasthas or debilitation is to force us to move towards Rahu. The harder we fight against what is holding us back, the greater our strength to face the unknown.