Switching to Tropic...
 
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Switching to Tropical

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Mitryendra80
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Is science still correcting and updated the precise location of the galactic plane from time to time to be more accurate?

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nickmichie23
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Just weighing in on the tropical debate, I have the exact opposite problem of @Leela.

To me, when I see my chart in Sidereal, I'm like "that makes total sense". Then when I see it in Tropical, that makes total sense to me too. 

I guess we are just so complex and infinitely difficult to define in words and concepts. And of course self-deception is a huge factor. We all like to see ourselves a certain way, and we are mostly quite different from the version we create in our minds. 

I think the zodiac debate is so hard for this reason. But it is nice to see people challenging tradition and asking questions about long established ways of doing. 

People can be quite fixed about their Zodiacs. I guess we all just have to do our own research and hopefully publish/share what we find 🙂

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Brooke
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Sidereal vs tropical zodiac:

For me it was simply stripping it all down to the essence of the signs.  Layering a bunch of different techniques and criteria while comparing two zodiacs often muddles everything up, because we can always find a way to justify everything. I'm revealing myself as a shitty scientific astrologer (even though I do rely heavily on technique) but the signs have an energetic quality that becomes difficult to mistake overtime. But I know that doesn't mean shit in a scientific discussion lol. 

The avasthas  really make it clear though. Especially with what Ernst did with the avasthas in Medical Astrology. I have yet to see sidereal astrologers use the rasis in a way that is truly meaningful in medical astrology, which is crazy because they all have clear anatomical indications...

Also, the fact that Rasi means a portion of 30 degrees says it all to me.

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Mattias
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@brooke And the simply fact that the stars are not visible when Sun is up. If that´s not an indicator I don´t know what.

Plus you make a fool of yourself if you celebrate the easily dated astronomical event known as winter solstice three weeks too late. Makes sidereal looks like complete idiots, honestly, to my little and humble knowing about this matter. I just feel that I don´t need to know more that that, like the kid in the story of "the emperor´s New Cloth" - "His naked, stupid!"

I´m 52, I came late to astrology, don´t have the time to be more ellaborate than that. 😆 

Mattias

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Leela
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@brooke 

 Posted by: @brooke

For me it was simply stripping it all down to the essence of the signs. 

The essence of what a sign is doesn't change whether we use tropical or sidereal. So how does this decide the matter?

Posted by: @brooke

The avasthas  really make it clear though.

How so? Avastha is a concept/technique that is not dependent on the zodiac being tropical. Ernst demonstrating it with tropical doesn't mean it is 'tied' to the tropical zodiac. and FYI, Avasthas are not Ernst's invention. Sidereal astrologers commonly not using it doesn't mean it cannot be used with it. (and this is not even true, they do use it)

Posted by: @brooke

Also, the fact that Rasi means a portion of 30 degrees says it all to me.

Funny, because this is what pushes me toward non-tropical calculations. (But the term 'Sidereal' is misleading). But the answer to this lays in math. 

Posted by: @meyes

Plus you make a fool of yourself if you celebrate the easily dated astronomical event known as winter solstice three weeks too late.

And you make a fool of yourself if you don't know that many Indian Panchangams calculate "Uttarayana" correctly as on winter Solstice. Look at Drik Panchang. 

Some people conflate the festival of Pongal to Uttarayana, others don't. Finding whether that is true or not is a completely different matter than hurling random accusations on an entire country, based on hearsay!!! 

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Mattias
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@leela Quoting Wikipedia, not the best source but far better than hearsay:

"Every year Makar Sankranti is celebrated in the month of January to mark the winter solstice."

Mattias

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Mattias
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Reading again what you wrote Leela. "hurling random accusations on an entire country". I wonder what country that would be since I didn´t mention or make any reference to one? 

Doesn´t your answer just confirm that the sidereal zodiac is tied to the Indian self image, so that any questioning of it feels like an insult? Of course that blocks any objective discussion.

(And it certainly doesn´t make the celebrating of the solstice three weeks off seems any less silly. I grew up in a northern country where you can not avoid feeling the difference between the solstice and January 14. There are places where the Sun doesn´t even rise on the day of solstice, I´ve experienced it myself. So it´s a quite easy event to time. Hard to miss. So from my life experience I can´t help but thinking it´s hilarious that they are t h r e e  w e e k s off, if you excuse me. That, of course, has nothing to do with those who celebrates the Makar Sankranti for another reason! Did I say anything about them to hurt your feelings? Did I say anything about India?)

Mattias

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Manisha
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Wouldn’t predictive astrology be subjective? Wouldn’t the background of the reader color what they see? If someone’s entire focus is about making money or love, wouldn’t they see the same in the chart that they are looking at? So, would it be better to have a specialisation in a particular field so people know what you are best at and come for a reading for that particular issue? That way, astrology won’t get the blame of being wrong when the imperfection lies within the reader. That way the responsibility gets shifted onto the reader because he is more in the position of power and hence needs to handle the karma, instead of shifting the blame on to the person who is already not in a good place and can’t see the bigger picture.

I agree with @mitryendra80 . Would giving cookie cutter methods not cause more problems? If the internal world expresses into the external, would it not be better to start making the shift to focus on the internal? I find Western astrology expansive and there is an element of empowerment in it. I find Vedic astrology deep and I have to dig deep within myself to understand even a tiny bit. By digging deep, I am shifting brain patterns which give deeper understandings. With the advancement of smart objects, I am already seeing the deterioration in the functionality of the brain in the world. Perhaps that’s the reasons for the sutras - to entice people to look beyond what is apparent until it becomes a habit. I would definitely look forward to a course.

I agree with @brooke . I found the best way was to ponder upon each sign, each planet, each house. It might take 4 years to begin to understand the Sun, but now one has worshipped the Sun for 4 years already and developed its qualities within oneself. There is nothing better than that.

So, does that make everything else a distraction? I see the fight between Zodiacs and the Ayanamsas like the fight between which God is better and more benevolent than the other. Within the fight between the Gods, one forgets love and compassion and acceptance. Between the fight between Zodiacs and Ayanamsas, it seems we get distracted from what is really important - to understand the planets within us and their interdependence within us to bring them into consciousness.

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Elena
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Posted by: @nickmichie23

To me, when I see my chart in Sidereal, I'm like "that makes total sense". Then when I see it in Tropical, that makes total sense to me too. 

Same here. It's like I'm the combination of both. And maybe smth else, haha. 

Agree that we are so complex, which is impossible to grasp from our mostly conditioned minds. From the mind point of view we are what we want to see in the certain time of life.

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