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Are Five of Clubs prone to be autistic?

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(@staffan)
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I read a couple of lines in the newspaper a while ago, a woman saying: "I know I´m not autistic, but why is it that I can´t deal with the every-day matters?" My first thought was: "Because you are a Five of Clubs!" I didn´t know about her, but she was googleable (?) and indeed, bingo! She was a Five of Clubs.

Since I´m autistic myself, especially after that I´ve come to wonder whether there might a relationship between that spread and autism.

Some possible indications:

- 3 of Diamonds on the Sun card. Extreme sensitivity to sound, light etc. Perfectionist - aspergers tend to perform highly within some special field.

- 7 of Diamonds on the Mercury card - the worldly world not working out very well.

- King of Diamonds on the Uranus card. We tend to have our own value system that we defend even if they want to burn us alive. You don´t find many aspergers to care about brands for example. We don´t fit in the worlds expectations, often.

- Five of Hearts as underlying card. This one is more far-fetched perhaps. Autists are often said to lack empathy, but I´d say - and I´m not the only one - that it´s rather the other way round. Autistic people can be v e r y empathic, as the example of Temple Grandin (see the movie!) shows. What often makes us come out as non-empathic is the very direct way that we communicate things, I thing. Well, Five of Herts is an emphatic card, right?

- Ace of Spades on the Moon card, maybe far-fetched too: knowing secrets. Aspie tends to see things that most people don´t see, I believe.

Any thoughts or experiences? If Five of Clubs is prone to autism I guess it´s not the only card to be that. Any more ideas?

Staffan

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Ernst Wilhelm
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I have one autistic chart in the kala database, really need more! but this one is a 5 of diamonds and the 5th card is the 2 of clubs with mercury and moon in it. In the horoscope mercury and moon are conjunction, which is not a good conjunction as moon starves mercury AND this is happening in the 8th. So this makes a lot of sense for them to have a mental peculiarity. Saturn also aspects both of these by being in the 4th from the Moon. 

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That is interesting. My Mercury is starved by the Moon too, but to 40 varupas so not that severe. It´s in my 7th so it has very low DigBala.

Just checked the famous autist Temple Grandin´s chart and she´s a 10H with 10D on her Sun card, AD on her Mercury card and 5D on her Uranus card. So there could be something to it. But of course everyone has some diamonds in their spread, so it really doesn´t prove much.

 

Staffan

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Ernst Wilhelm
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I think its more about the mercury than about a particular card. 5's are very BUSY cards, so that may contribute. 

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(@ashtangi108)
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@ernst thanks for pointing that out. As a 5 of clubs with a heavily loaded 7 of diamonds, I can attest, I am far from autistic, and far from having financial troubles.  In the past I was too warm and giving and squishy and have really had to activate the KH on the ecliptic in order to grow, so, seems that the 5C is going to vary tremendously depending on the planetary placements.  I also get around in this world quite well but would rather just stay home these days. 

Interestingly, I do have a son with aspbergers' syndrome vs level one autsim however the jury is still out if he will even appear autistic as an adult, as the autism is mild.  Someone else posted about 7D and sacrifices, and with 4 planets in my 7D card, I have made many sacrifices for helping my son as far as career choices go, but they have only strangely increased my fortune.  I attribute this to my moon barely waning in the mars card, without other planets (I switched to administration from patient care as a psychiatrist to have more time for my son--- 7D but ended up being quite a boon for me on many levels).  So it seems the planetary placements make a huge difference. 

If you want a chart of extremely high functioning autsim (vs social anxiety disorder with sensory issues, also he has recovered from a condition called selective mutism which led to him being socially mute for a number of years) I will post the birth data for you to see for my son at the end of this post, without his name.  He scores in the top 2% nationally for math, science and reading and now, at age 9, is really starting to flourish after years of therapy and work.  He is a 5S and my 5th card is a 5S, our moons are about 1 or 2 degrees apart, we are extremely close.  His prognosis is good, but admittedly I am a psychiatrist by trade and I have poured hours into getting him well.

 

Here is the chart info (he was socially mute until approx ae 7 and we think the onset was at about age 4, but could have been sooner) and he is considered "Uniquely neurodivergent."  Autism would be what is called level one without supports versus social communication disorder (formerly aspberger's syndrome)

Feb 7th 2014 0459PM  Johnson City TN 1659 (EST)

  I often think that the warm and loving environment my son has grown up in is making such a tremendous impact on how he develops, especially when I speak to people who describe others in their families who are mute, and how through simply trying to do the right thing, they help their loved ones perpetuate their mute conditions by speaking for them, which, in effect perpetuates the muteness.  Sometimes the families are just trying to do the right thing, and then, in other families they may simply not have to bandwidth to be kind, which can make the autism in a developing child worse if the case is a mild one.  Autism is often co-morbid with mutism but social anxity is more often co-morbid with mustism.  As someone who has read the DSM many times and who also studies CoT and astrology, I am here to attest that CoT + astrology gives a better understanding of these matters than the current diagnostic books (in my opinion, an n of 1 but still, I have looked at both and a lot).

I think mercury and the moons with afflictions primarily lead to ASD but the level of severity will really depend on the placements and progressions. 

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Lorris
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My dad is a 5of club, he is not autistic. He is Ceo of a Phone/IT company . But he has a hard time being social, lack empathy and is narcissistic (Saturn sun opposition). He has a hard time understanding reality, journalism, fact checking, to him you have to trust god and only that, he talks about God all the time but doesn't tolerate any religion except his own, so a bad club here. He has rahu in the 3rd in Virgo, that ketu in the 9th in Pisces is very strong, and his AK is Jupiter in Sag, vargotama.

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(@staffan)
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@lorris Sorry to hear about that, I mean about your father´s narcissism. To my (own) experience one of the way 4 of Clubs on the Pluto card works is that we are just not allowed to be dogmatic, life treats us badly when we do, that resonated with me when you where mentioning your father. On the contrary, we are suppsed to arrive at 4 of Clubs later in life (overlying card) after having learned to let go of any fix idea, through constant questioning.

I also wonder what drives him to be a high ranked CEO, since the 5 of Clubs have strong indications for not being interested in money and worldly stuff. Maybe that´s just another source of frustration for your father, something that he would be more happy would he let go of it?

Vargotama is a wonderful thing to have according to my own experience/belief, I have it twice, for my AK as well as for my lagna.

Staffan

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(@staffan)
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Pondering more on this... 3 of Diamonds on the Sun card is a perfectionist, "the Patriarch"(KH) is on the Ecliptic card and then they have another King on the Uranus card... Yes, Five of club really has to develop their humor and humility as for their knowledge and philosophy, or they may become an unbearable wise-ass, I believe. The Venus card Jack of Hearts may soften them, making them more charming, but still... Five of Clubs aren´t really allowed to be dogmatic, ever. But often are, of course.

Staffan

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(@ashtangi108)
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@staffan as a 5C with an afflicted sun, I did not need to develop humility as much as self-love.  I really think the planets make a tremendous diifference.  My lack of self-confidence precluded smart choices as a very young person and I gave too many narcissists permission to run my life.  I would say I have not been dogmatic, but, i have been smug about how much I can tell from the cards and astrology (ha!).  I think so much just depends on the planets in the cards.

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Lorris
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@staffan Life indeed treat him badly because he can't stop his dogmatism what ever you say to him. It's been 22 years he has tried tooth and nails to convert everybody, he still think he has the solution to save us all. 

"high ranked CEO" It's not that high, a family thing, I avoid it at best I can, he uses it to help people supposedly, but seeing between the veil it's that Saturn opposite Sun. Everyone I have met with this placement try to excel in their leadership abilities, I know a lot of people with that opposition and they all are leaders with a lot of suffering, as most see through their deceptions over time, they feel like betrayed King, their their employee or friends has betrayed them over time, but they keep the good fight still. Look at the "Burnt" movie or every Bradley cooper movie has this leadership qualities.

In the Burnt movie Bradley try to be the best "Chef" de France, he is trying to get a 3 star rating, already had 2, got problems with Addiction, failed his friends and family, and in the movies abuse his employee through bad leadership, and according to him he loved every minute of it. 

In the "Limitless" Movie Bradley is a failed writer, use a miraculous drogue that make him "God" on earth, he is super smart and over time instead of trying to settle in life he try to become the President after a lot of struggle. 

Last movie he did was only the voice of a raccoon with "Guardian of the Galaxy". In that movie he is a lab rat experiment, try to escape his fate,  got his best friends killed while trying to escape his master. He is the smartest experiment but don't seem to use his skills that much to save his friends. In the end after a lot of struggle he find a way to save all the animals (Saturn) from dying by the master hands (Sun). And he also realized he is indeed a Raccoon which was what he never wanted or admitted or actually knew (he is that Saturn he tried to fight, a slave) So in the end those people aren't leader, they are are slave to their leadership, or failed leadership. But they mostly see themselves as the Slave through their life while playing the role of the leader that abuse himself and his peers in the process. They humiliate themselves a lot (lack of confidence), so you don't realize that they are indeed abusing you also in the process. 

Richard Madden in game of thrones, got killed in the wedding (horrible), lost of his family, lost of his "best friend" that got horribly tortured because of his bad leadership decision. Most of the time can't focus on the war and get distracted by women, and got almost all of his family killed, lost the war. Everyone thinks he is a very good leader but too young. 

The Witcher Henry Cavill, failed serie, Moon on the Ascendant people don't see his failed leadership. They love the guy. 

I know 2 dance teacher with Saturn opposite Sun ,they try to excel in their leadership abilities, with different degree of success. But they sure like the authority and do sometimes abuse it depending on the other planets positions. If the other planets help a lot that narcissism is barely noticeable but still there.  

Both Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovich has Saturn Opposite Sun and in the same sign. They are leaders in their fields and keep at it no matter what. 

 

 

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(@staffan)
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@lorris That´s very interesting. Sun - Saturn seems to be such an obvious, classic, masculine drama - "I hate you dad, you have no idea how much I love you!". I wonder what we make of it in terms of vedic astrology?

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(@ashtangi108)
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@lorris wonder what makes him less social?  The Sa opp sun?  Sorry your dad is a narcissist that is a hard thing to grow up with.

 

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Lorris
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@ashtangi108 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iaYWXWbndldPqGKPPvCE-Ngftux58cYb/view?usp=sharing

 

Many things makes him less social, first since he is 42 his only focus is God, one could say it's not a bad thing but he mainly just read books about Christianity, he does what most Christians do which is to not listen to anything but Christians point of view. Anything else is irrelevant or coming from Satan. He barely admits to himself I study astrology since 2013, which is supposed to make me an evil doer, a satanist from his point of view, it's funny sometimes to see his fears, he think I'm going to hell 🤣 Last time he showed me a video of Christians casting out devils spirit. I'm more on the fence that the Demons are more like What Ernst translated with the Turtle Kurma Avatar (Graha Sutra). 

I have pondered many times about that Sun opposite Saturn. I wanted to ask Ernst for more information but I kept questioning myself what it means really (Sagittarius questioning). And after studying deeply with a lot of people who has this opposition and watching movies of people with that. I realized those people literally think they are God but find an excuse to pretend that they are not but at the same living like they are God messenger on earth. While at the same time fighting Satan (Saturn), or seeing Evil to every little thing they see with that Saturn placement.

My Dad has Saturn in the Capricorn Sign, and so everything linked to the Capricorn Sign makes my Dad a knight of God, he is fighting a holy war against Saturn in Cap. Not realizing Saturn is not supposed to be an enemy, he is the God of earth and my Dad live on earth, but he thinks he is God messenger (Sun on 1st in Cancer). In real life it means he avoid any behaviour related to sex or death, or being social, his Saturn is in the 7th house, Sun in the 1st. So he is highly focused on developing his 1st house. But he mostly doesn't care about others while pretending he is the Guru that will help you get your life in order with penance, a good marriage and absolutely no  pleasure what so ever, he is not against pleasure but never teach how to have fun or rest. I don't remember the last time I saw him enjoy something without trying to Jupiterize anything (Ketu in Pisces in the 9th) His best friend is tired of him, he barely share any friendship with anyone, every oppotunity for him is to fight Saturn, there is only that in his head mostly. And his wife has been enduring that fight since they were married, and even in his divorce when he was 42 he never gave up on this fight, never really admitting that he could just find another woman for himself. 

 

And I see that Jupiter in myself also, I have Jupiter at 5° close to ketu. I do too much Jupiter and it's a nightmare sometimes. I go out a lot to avoid my Jupiter but it always comes back at me. One would never thought Jesus can be a nightmare. But I think it happens when you are too close to the Sun Energy, it burns you, people can't approach God (Sun) that close without dying, most people aren't ready for that and will avoid you if you talk too much about that. 

 

I also think this placement indirectly make you seek Saturn in an extreme sexual way, being around those people makes you crave sex as they too crave sex but can't admit it. I have been doing a lot of meditation, various form and a lot of sports. I noticed it helps me with my sexual urge. That narcissist tendency  from my dad actually seems to make me addicted to sex. Or addicted to that Capricorn feminine energy. My GFs always had this Capricorn energy in their chart, most of the time with a lot of problems surrounding that sign. And me  trying to develop that sign with Rahu on top is not easy to say the least. I have Saturn in 1° Aquarius with Rahu in the 27° of Cap, so my Saturn is conjunct Rahu, it's very close. I'm addicted to Saturn energy. 

 

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(@staffan)
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@lorris Wow, that´s one testimony to learn from. Tons of stuff going on!

What first comes to my mind, since we are talking about the cards, is that 5C really is a make it or break it-card, like all fives, it goes one way or another. i spent a couple of months in the States with my 14-y-o son who is a 5D - two fives, a father and a son, traveling and spending all time together - it wasn´t easy. I later stated in a letter: "Fives are probably the hardest people to be around." We question things, we get attached to our ideas, life is a constant struggle, "I love this!", "I really don´t like this!" Until we get it and let go, of course. As it has to be, of course, it´s the testing ground. But I recommend everyone two think twice before jumping on a 5-train.

I think that with that stellum in his first house your father maybe has been a little too much succesful for his own good. A 5C really needs a couple of deaththreating breakdowns to get over his or her dogmatism, I believe.

As for sex addiction: It´s yet another addiction, any emotion can be sexualized and stress is one of the most common. So absolutely. Tried SLAA, the twelvestep program for sex addiction?

Interesting what you say about the capricorn energy: My wife is a capricorn and she´s really the ring that allows me to shine like a crazy diamanod without doing any harm to myself or other. I mean, I´m her ring too that allow her to shine, but that´s another story.

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Lorris
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@staffan My last GF, she had Moon in Aquarius, in the 5of club card. My moon is in the 5 of Spade. I knew from the get go we weren't compatible according to Ernst compatibility class (with cards or astro). But I was still madly attracted to her. I had to know her. And she had Venus in the Cap Sign her AK, exactly on my Rahu degrees in Cap. Long story short we love each other but couldn't be together for long periods. That 5 of club from her is a crazy story to say the least and all that during 2023, I feel like everyone is getting insane recently. Yet spirituality is increasing at a rate I have never seen before. It's magical and a hell of a ride to say the least.

That and me getting these spiritual abilities I have train so much to get, and yet that same thing broke my relationship with her, she couldn't stand that I knew what she felt or thought. In the end it was a temporary relationship.

I never tried program for sex addiction, I have a hard time accepting help from others and I don't feel my addiction is unmanageable.

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(@staffan)
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@lorris I agree, it´s an intense time and things really break. As for relationship I´m really pessimistic generally speaking, most women need... Nah, I can´t talk about it in this forum, the girls would go crazy.

It would be interesting see the charts of both of you.

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