I just saw this quote by Ernst from my 6 of Spades notes. It's from the concrete and practical meaning video.
-In a relationship, when one relationship ends, no you don't immediately go start a new relationship. You actually go back to the 6 of Spades and start a new relationship with yourself.
So perhaps if she has recently gotten out of a relationship, the 6 of Spades in the "Going Against You" card is saying she hasn't quite spent enough time alone developing her relationship to herself yet. But the 7 of Clubs in the "Going For You" position shows that she's on the path to smashing through a new personal breakthrough in her healing journey.
@kam What a great quote! I am going to add that to my 6 of Spades notes. Definitely helps me understand the card better 🙂
Its a matter of finding out if the person can only have ONE of those, which is more important. Every one wants BOTH. but which one is more important needs to be known so that we know what to sacrifice when compromise is required. People who want both all the time in all situations are narcs. and no, all straigh people do not follow this pattern, most do, but not all. many think they dont and after a lifetime of trying what does not work realize they do.
I think everyone of us want to be loved for who we are, irrespective of the gender. Unfortunately, it gets distorted to wanting to be loved for what we do, not understanding that what we do is an extension of who we are. A further distortion is about wanting to be loved for what we have - money and power for men, and good looks for women.
The problem is that we want love and appreciation from outside sources because we have not been exposed to loving and appreciating ourselves for who we are. Ever since we were babies, we notice that we are appreciated for what we do - the baby smiles and everyone claps their hands, the child achieves something beyond his/her capability and is rewarded.
If there is a need for appreciation for either masculinity or for feminity, then it is something that we have learnt to be dependent on someone else for. Thus we bring in people and situations to us that do not appreciate us either.
I think of myself as a strong independent woman. I can do whatever I put my mind to and be extremely successful at it. I don’t really need anyone, but I think it will be fun to be with someone.
The difference is between “need” and “want”. “Need” is when one is wounded, feels incomplete and requires someone else to fill the void they have. “Want” on the other hand is when one feels complete within oneself and everything else adds to that feeling. It’s like adding cherry on the cake ????
In this reading, the querent has suffered a tragic loss and she is wounded at this time. If she falls into another relationship before she sees the complete picture with regards to the previous situation, all she will do is repeat the same mistake or part of it. Once she is healed, as much as is possible, and finds her center again, depending on the situation, she can choose from a detached perspective whether to go back or to move on.
@manisha. Yes, the querent did suffer a tragic loss in her last relationship. At 6 months into the relationship her girlfriend was sleeping over and brought her Pit Bull rescue dog with her. In the middle of the night on Christmas eve the Pit bull brutally killed the querent's small Brussels Griffon dog who was her long time best friend. The relationship was never able to recover from the animosity and trauma of the incident although they tried very hard.
I wonder if you could share more details about how you see that in the cards presented?
It seems that all of the multiple meanings of the spread that people have presented in this thread would be "correct" if applied during the reading. So it sounds like the cards can be read multiple ways and still give sound advice.
@manisha. "I think everyone of us want to be loved for who we are, irrespective of the gender. Unfortunately, it gets distorted to wanting to be loved for what we do, not understanding that what we do is an extension of who we are. A further distortion is about wanting to be loved for what we have - money and power for men, and good looks for women."
I think this is mixing up things that have once been expressed clearly.
No, I "am" not my action.
And no, as a man I don´t want to be admired for what I am. As a man I feel awkward if a woman admires me the way that a woman might like to be admired; for my beauty, for my body, for my smell... I would feel like a pet, I would feel objectified. I would look for the door.
Do I want to be admired for what I have? I don´t know; if I had inherited my money, would I accept a woman´s admiration for that? I don´t think so, I think I would feel unworthy of it. I would have the need for having earned it through my action. And if we look around, isn´t that a theme for movies etc, that we don´t admire men with inherited money and power? Do we admire brats? We don´t. The rich guy who hasn´t earned his money often plays a silly role in a movie, as a contrast to what we call a "real man", a man who deserves respect through his actions.
And do women "have" good look, good smell, nicety etc, or ARE they goodlooking, nice-smelling and nice? To say that we "have" money or "have" beauty to me just seems as an attempt to look away, not wanting to see the difference.
So personally I prefer the description as it was: men want to be admired for their masculine side, their action. Women want to be admired for what they are. In a relationship, that is! In the outer world women too look for validation of their action, of course.
I think women would gain from understanding men and their need in this matter, since they often get frustrated when men run away from relationships or even just beginning relationships. And blame them. But if you admire him like you admire a pet, for his outer qualities, and don´t appreciate his actions - that´s what is to be expected! There is no better way to scare away a man to admire him for the wrong reasons, I believe.
Mattias
The more I think about it... Actually it´s a major masculine theme: the fairy tale prince has to gain his thrown. The knight has to win his spurs.
In a world that works, from a masculine point of view, there is no way for brats. The true King expresses himself through fair and admirable action. He arrives there through experience. First he ride the red horse; aggressivity and conflict. Then he rides the white horse: diplomacy. Then he arrives on a black horse.
While the fairy tale princess/queen arrives dressed in those colors, but in a different order: first white (innosence), then red (definding her kingdom/kids) and finally black.
If brats are accepted in the real world, if men gains admiration for inherited wealth or titles, from a masculine point of view it´s an indication of something not working as it should. A perverted world.
I do also think that there is a battle going on here between feminine and masculine principles: the mother tends to want her son on the thrown no matter; the father knows he has to gain the right to be a King through fair actions.
Thank you Manisha for putting me on the trail! This discussion go so deep for me, straight into the core of my life. Into my family relations. But then my Eclipse card is King of Heart and my Uranus King of Diamonds...
Mattias
Also... If a woman wants a man for his power and his money, that´s not gonna work. She´s not going to feel right about herself, nor about her partner. I think that´s more or less the definition of what we call prostitution.
I think that´s one of the reasons that many women in our days feel a constant anger against men. Because they feel bad about themselves, not honoring the King but rather going for the money. Many women have lost their capacity for honouring masculinity I think. Of course there are understandable reasons for that, with all the scewed masculinity out there. But it´s not all scewed.
Not honouring the other gender makes us feel bad about ourselves, and trapped in our own limitations. It´s just as impossible as trying to live a full life not honouring our parents, no matter what they have done to us.
Mattias
@rhiannon The post started with you asking about the Six of Spades in the ‘Going Against’ place. I had posted a couple of replies before, but let’s see if I can expand on it some more.
The Six of Spades follows the Five of Spades. In tarot, the Five of Swords represents disagreement and conflict in which harsh words are spoken. The end result is that a false victory has been won because of the mind getting in the way. Even though one has won, one has also lost because of distancing oneself from others.
The consequence is regret. One can pick up the swords, try to take back the words, but the damage has been done. The loss has occurred.
The Five depicts change, chaos. It is the thing that we miss out on because it is represented by Judgement and Justice. In COT, Five of Spades is about rooting oneself deeper so that one can grow stronger.
I wonder if the querent was using the relationship or the pet as an excuse for not moving towards what they really wanted to do. (Perhaps not moving towards Rahu?) (Not saying this in a judging manner, but I have seen this play out and I have occasionally done this myself too.)
After you posted the spread, we see that the Foundation Problem is the 4 of Diamonds. Four of Diamonds is a fertile plot of land in which something can grow. So even though the querent had asked about love, the question really becomes about whether they are ready for love. If she was ready for love, love would have already been knocking on her door and she wouldn’t be asking that question. Is she secure in her own value? Is her inner foundation solid, or is she mistaking sand for concrete?
The first thing that pops into our head about love is the one between two people. But love is really about emotionally connecting to anything - animals, people, things, hobbies, career - anything where the heart feels open and welcoming.
The Present is the 4 of Spades - a seedling whose bark had hardened. The querent has been through major healing and recuperation, and a new hope has sprung up and taken hold.
The Future is the 2 of Hearts - the hope will bear fruit. What type, we don’t know. It is possible that she might end up emotionally connecting with a new puppy or pet, or she might find love with another person. Perhaps that person might have a pet which will help her overcome the remaining trauma of loss. We don’t know.
The advice for Action or Lack of Action is 10 of Diamonds. It is the card of self-evaluation. The imagery is that of varying terrains in varying conditions. Will the querent carry her past baggage into new situations, or will she see it for what it is and not project the past on it?
The Against is 6 of Spades - there is stable growth in healing. But it hasn’t reached the Seven of Spades yet - the limit of the growth, when one faces oneself.
The For is 7 of Clubs - Leaves turning color ready to fall off the branches. Perhaps it is time to ponder upon what needs to let go of and what she needs to hold on to or defend to make the best of the situation.
The Outcome is 6 of Clubs - Once the things that need to be let go of are set free, there will be enough space for what is really important to grow and flourish.
—————-
I wasn’t sure if you had asked only about the Six of Spades, or the entire spread, but I wrote about how I see it. (I see things in abstracts and then I have to piece it together.) If the Six of Spades was in the ‘For’ place, then we could have read it that she is moving past her issues. But it looks like your friend is being asked to dig deeper than that. Not surprising, given the story you posted about her.
It is easy to read the cards and see what is happening, but what the person has to go through is completely different. After such a traumatic event, it will take time to trust herself and others again.
Thank you for your insight. I learned so much. I am glad you shared your take on the entire spread because I was really able to learn a lot from how you approached the spread as a whole.
I see that you read the cards from more of an internal work/ inner healing journey perspective. Because of my background with tarot it seems I am used to reading more of a concrete and external outcome of the cards. When I read for her, I saw the two of the hearts in the future position as an indication that she would soon meet someone, and the 6 of Clubs in the outcome position as, "the relationship with this person will be super inspiring and you will be able to do your work in this partnership." She had King of Clubs on the Mars card in her birth spread so I remember Ernst’s saying that the 3rd card was part of your “dating testing laboratory” and that a club in this position would indicate that querent would test their dates on whether of not they could do their work with that person, and if their ideas could flow with that potential partner.
I do find myself confused, though, on how to read the cards since Ernst’s offered both a course videos on their meanings in relation to nature, and the other course on the concrete meanings.
I guess knowing when to read them as concrete meanings, versus the flow in nature, is based on our intuition in the moment? For instance, with the 9 of Clubs. When I see it in a year spread am I to read it as a “withdrawal of energy” and a hermit card, or a completion of a business deal/or going in the right direction on your path? "Withdrawing energy" and "completing a business deal" feel like opposites in some ways... I have encountered this conundrum with a few cards now with the flow in nature meaning vs. the concrete meaning feeling dissimilar and confusing me.
PS. Her Rahu is closest to the third cusp in Capricorn so yes, there could be something there around “beliefs” of not being worthy of moving towards what she really wanted to do in the past relationship.
I think our lives mold our perspectives, how we see things, and how we project it out. Your life might have run on a different track than mine, and you would read the same spread from your perspective. The person who would come to you would need what you have to tell them. Hence, I would not second guess what you told the querent, nor let it affect your self-confidence.
This platform, on the other hand, is a learning platform. We get to see each other’s perspectives. Those perspectives will be different, but not necessarily all-encompassingly correct. Some will align with us to move us forward on our own personal journey, and some won’t. Some show us how much our biases throw us off-target.
With regards to the course in relation to nature and the concrete meanings, they are not mutually exclusive. The concrete meanings are only a few examples to help us understand how the cards manifests themselves, but it is not an exhaustive list.
There is an ebb and flow to everything. There are cycles within cycles, layers within layers. If you can get to see that, if you can see nature playing out in your life or in the life of others, you have understood the foundation on which everything exists.
The cycles start from 1 and end at 9, with the 10 showing the mastery over that previous cycle. But once mastery has been achieved, we move on to another cycle beginning at 1.
Then we have the four suits getting layered on top of each other.
When we enter into a business deal, it is not just a signing of an agreement and a hand-shake. That is on a physical concrete level. Everything we do is about the give and take of energy. In a business deal, we are tying our energy with someone else’s to create a third energy - the outcome. It is the same in a relationship, or in a group. It is not only about physically being there. If it was, then separations would not have hurt as much.
At the completion of a business deal, it is complete, it is finished. There is no need for the participants and their energies to be involved anymore, and so they are free to withdraw their energy from the business deal or the relationship.