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sharonsegall
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hi all,

please can someone explain the behavioral expression of someone who has the moon in scorpio but not in its debilitated state which is 0-3 degrees.

mars is neutral to the moon so in Aris moon  wouldn't help nor damage if alone, but if moon in scorpio its debilitation expresses only in the first 3 degrees,

so my question is: would the moon ,while in a greater degree than 3, have a neutral energy in scorpio, meaning, neither good nor bad , or would it still affect negatively, but to a leaser extant? like ,a person be reactive emotionally /distracted with negative emotion. much more than if the moon was not there ?  

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Rhiannon
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Hi @sharonsegall - just a friendly suggestion that it is better for everyone to post your follow up questions all in the same thread that you already started (since they are a similar topic and based on the same course) than to create new posts all with the same title. 

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Mona
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 Mona
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The natural and temporary planetary friendship rules apply to the Moon then. Moon in 0-3 degrees Scorpio is debilitated as you mentioned, beyond 3 degrees, Moon is in a neutral sign (Mars is neutral to the Moon). That's the natural friendship. Then, based on the position of Mars in the chart, you add the temporary friendship to that. So, the Moon would either be in a friend's or in an enemy's sign. 

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sharonsegall
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thank you mona, i got the first part of your answer but got confused by the last part of it saying that  "based on the position of Mars in the chart, you add the temporary friendship to that. So, the Moon would either be in a friend's or in an enemy's sign." can you elaborate on this please

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Mona
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@sharonsegall As per @tuyetv, you can check out that other thread. It was specifically geared towards figuring out the dignity in each varga. In general though, the rules are as follow:

First determine natural friendship 

The signs that are the 2nd, 12th, 4th, 8th, 5th and 9th from the moolatrikona of a graha are friends. The exaltation sign is a friend as well. All others are enemies. If a graha becomes both an enemy and a friend, then the natural friendship in neutral. So for the Moon, for example, from Taurus (Moolatrikona), Libra is the 6th rasi from Taurus so it's enemy, but Taurus is also the exaltation sign so Venus is neutral to the Moon. Sagittarius is 8th from Taurus = friend but Pisces is 11th from Taurus = enemy, so Jupiter is neutral to the Moon, etc...

This is valid for all charts, regardless of graha placements, so best to memorize the table of natural friendships, as this doesn't change from one chart to the next.

Then, you determine the temporary friendships which is depending on where the planets are placed in a particular chart. The planets placed in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rasi and in the 10th, 11th, 12th rasi are friends. Basically, 3 in fronts and 3 in the back. Enemies when joined or in the other positions. 

As per the other thread, this temporary friendship determined in the rasi is carried over in the vargas. If Sun and Mars are temporary friends in the rasi, they will be temporary friends in all the vargas. 

To figure out the dignity of the planet, you need to combine the natural and temporary friendships:

F+F=GF, F+N=F, F+E=N, E+N=E, E+E=GE

Obviously, debilitated and exalted, Moolatrikona, own sign are not subject to this rule since they are dignity in and of themselves. 

I believe this is all explained in videos #12 -14 of the Jyotish building blocks.

Hope this helps. 

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sharonsegall
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@mona

shooo, you just cleared up all vagueness i had about the subject.

i haven't watched yet those videos you mentioned as when i did it before , i got more confused with other factors i didnt know and it just installed me more

. so thank you once again for taking time to clarify the subject with such precision, it goes long way in easing my stumble across all that new world.

xxxxxxxxxx

s

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sharonsegall
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@mona

just to make sure i understood correctly , you said "Obviously, debilitated and exalted, Moolatrikona, own sign are not subject to this rule since they are dignity in and of themselves"

meaning in those cases the dignity in a specific chart, ignore temporary friendship and carry good dignity if in MT/OWN SIGN AND EXAL and bad dig if DEB?

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sharonsegall
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@mona

just to make sure i understood correctly , you said "Obviously, debilitated and exalted, Moolatrikona, own sign are not subject to this rule since they are dignity in and of themselves"

meaning in those cases the dignity in a specific chart, ignore temporary friendship and carry good dignity if in MT/OWN SIGN AND EXAL and bad dig if DEB?

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sharonsegall
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@mona

just to make sure i understood correctly , you said "Obviously, debilitated and exalted, Moolatrikona, own sign are not subject to this rule since they are dignity in and of themselves"

meaning in those cases the dignity in a specific chart, ignore temporary friendship and carry good dignity if in MT/OWN SIGN AND EXAL and bad dig if DEB?

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Mona
 Mona
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@sharonsegall No, I meant the natural + temporary friendship rule to determine "final" dignity, not the carrying over rule. Good question though. The temporary friendships of the rasi exist no matter what and that's the one that needs to be carried over in the vargas. In other words, for example, a planet exalted in the rasi is not exalted in all vargas. If the Moon is in Taurus, it's exalted in the Rasi. But, if Venus is in Scorpio in that same rasi, Venus is a temporary enemy because it's in the 7th position from where Moon is and that temporary relationship will not affect the fact that the Moon is exalted but it needs to be carried over in all the varga. So, if the Moon is in Taurus in one of the vargas, it obviously is exalted there too, but if it's let's say in Libra, in an enemy's sign, then the final dignity is great enemy in that varga (enemy + enemy = great enemy). if you have Kala, those are calculated for you and you can double-check, it's a great learning exercise.

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sharonsegall
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@mona

i have just started and dont have the kala, and so i needed some ground rules to work things out myself, but thank you ,you answered my question, i did ask about the rashi itself not the carry over to the other vargas .

i try against my grain, to stick to the path of understanding the foundation before jumping forward to the vargas.

my last attempt to do so created more confession then clarity.

thank you you are a star!!! 

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Mona
 Mona
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@sharonsegall yes foundations are key! I'm going back to those myself these days, especially the core meaning of planets, signs and houses. You can't do much without it.

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sharonsegall
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@mona

please can i bother you again about the friendship matter,

is the dignity of a planet in a specific sign in the rashi (lets say Saturn in taurus )calculated by the combined  natural friendship  with the temporary friendship of venus toward saturn ,  do we also continue  calculating the other planets friendships  through combining their natural freindship plus temporary friendship toward saturn? and if yes how do we sum this whole total for saturn?

or the dignity itself for saturn, would be just with respect to natural and temporary friendship with venus in this case?

and another question, 

if lets say mercury sitting with Saturn in the taurus sign and the total dignity toward saturn BY MERCURY  is neutral ( F+E) does that mean he doesnt hurt saturn, while saturn towards mercury is an enemy (N+E) ?

xxx

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Mona
 Mona
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@sharonsegall Hi, the dignity only applies to a specific planet in a specific sign. So, in your example Saturn in Taurus, you look at Saturn/Venus natural + temporary friendships to determine the dignity of Saturn. If, in a varga, Saturn is in Pisces, then, you have to go back to the Rasi to look at Saturn and Jupiter temporary friendships to determine final dignity (but you only do that for that specific varga). 

That's for the dignity. 

What you are referring to I think is how planets interact with each other's. For that, you only look at natural friendships, the conjunctions and aspects and the best way to understand those interactions is to study the Lajjitaadi Avasthas. That's sort of independent of the total dignity (even though, it may be best to be delighted or starved by a planet in good dignity but that's another layer of analysis that am not sure is used and from my notes from one of Ernst's classes is irrelevant to determine how planets affect each other's) 

The way I understand and compartmentalize this is: the dignity of a planet will help determine the auspicious and inauspicious quality of a planet in relationship to the bhava/house it's in. Basically, how happy or moody it the planet in the environment it's placed in? A debilitated Saturn in the 7th house may be overly detached, cold or emotionally suppressed in relationships for example. On the other hand, the Lajjitaadi Avasthas will help determine how much a planet is capable of taking care of what they innately represents (karaka) and the house(s) it rules (in addition to the psychological insights it gives us). 

Hope that helps!

Mona

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sharonsegall
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@mona

thank you mona, i appreciate it!!!!!!!!!

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tuyetv
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@sharonsegal Ernst has an excellent course Jyotish Building Block which covers "Natural Relationship" "Temporal Relationship" and "Combined Relationship" that are a must watch to understand all of this. I have even watched these videos now and then after several years of studying astrology to reinforce my understanding. Also another very good video in the Jyotish Building Block is "Dignities and Planet's Auspicious and Inauspicious Nature". These are the must watch videos as a foundation to studying Vedic astrology. Many things often will not make sense at first, but give it time and some contemplation, it will make sense eventually at some point. Highly recommended to watch these videos

 

tuyet

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tuyetv
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This question was asked a while back and had excellent answers from various folks from this forum....

https://astrology-videos.com/forum/general-predictive-astrology/planetary-dignities#post-2392

 

tuyet

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sharonsegall
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@tuyetv

thank you that helped a lot!!!!!

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