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Manisha
Posts: 151
(@manisha)
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Hi Ernst,

Could you clarify again how we will define the planets? What would we say Sun denotes? The Ego (Aham)? The Moon is the Mind (Manas)? Is that correct?

What words would we use best for the other planets, both in Sanskrit and in English?

Thanks.

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Anand
(@anand)
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Hi Manisha,

I am using following key words for each planet currently, based on my understanding of what I have heard from Ernst so far:

SUN          --  Inspiration (Creative Vision, Enlightenment from subjective angle)

MOON       --  Need 

MARS        --  Logical Vision

MERCURY  --  Management

JUPITER    --  Inner Joy (Enlightenment from objective angle)

VENUS      --  Outer Fulfillment (Worldly fulfillment)

SATURN     -- Lack

RAHU        -- False

KETU         -- Uptight

 

Regards,

Anand

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Manisha
(@manisha)
Joined: 6 months ago

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Posts: 151

@anand

Thank you, Anand. I wonder if we can go deeper than that. I guess what I am trying to hone into is the way it gets manifested within us - the essence of what the planets represent and how one’s interaction affects the others. Maybe I need to see it as different layers and find the appropriate names within the different layers.

Can we see Mars as Will and Mercury as Skill? What would Jupiter and Venus be then?

(P.S. - I enjoyed your earlier post. It showed depth of thought and something that we are all struggling to understand and clarify. I hope you post it again.)

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Anand
(@anand)
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@manisha

Thank you for the clarification, I think I get your question now.

It is interesting to consider if we can map the context of one planet to that of another planet. Like "will" for Mars, can it necessarily map to "skill" for Mercury? Maybe in a chart, Mars could be denoting "will" but Mercury could be denoting "friends," "peers", or "communication"?

However, my thinking is that Mars is an engineer, and should represent Logical Vision no matter what he is denoting in the chart.

  1. As a soldier or general, he should represent the logical vision of winning the battle.
  2. As a mother, Mars represents the logical vision the mother has for her child, where as when the moon is the mother, she is concerned with the needs of the child.

Likewise, Mercury is a manager no matter what he is specifically denoting. Jupiter is objectified enlightenment no matter what he is manifesting etc,

This is just my thinking, and I guess I am very inexperienced in astrology. I do look forward for my understanding to get fine tuned in this forum.

btw, which is the earlier post you referred to?

Regards,

Anand

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Manisha
(@manisha)
Joined: 6 months ago

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Posts: 151

@anand

Yes, I agree with your explanation. But there will be a baseline that everything flows out from. Hence I think there must be different layers to the map, kind of like a multidimensional model instead of a one dimensional. 

Words are so tricky. If I don't know what something means, how do I get the meaning across? So I guess I am also trying to understand the language and see how it fits into what I inherently know. 

I am new to the world of astrology too. It feels like all the pieces of the puzzle are lying around on the ground, and I am trying to build a structure by figuring out which piece goes where. Sometimes I need to go off into the wilderness to look for additional pieces that have gone walk-about. LOL. 

(P. S. - The deleted one) 

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Anand
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@manisha

 

For the deleted one, may be you are referring to this?

======================================================

Hi Ernst,

 

From what I understand, the window of god's free will is through resolving the bad Lajjitadi Avasthas.

Rahu-Ketu indicate the absolutely fated parts of life.

Other than resolving the bad Lajjitadi Avasthas, is there any other window to implement free will?

How does Rahu-Ketu become the most important problem to solve if it is absolutely fated, how to solve it if there is  no free will with Rahu-Ketu? Or does resolving bad Lajjitadi Avastha somehow lead us into the Rahu jungle?

Finally, for a planet in certain Lajjitadi Avastha, how does the Avastha interpretation change when it is with Rahu or Ketu? Does this reduce or take away the free will opportunity offered by this avastha?

 

Regards,

Anand

=================================================================

 

I did not delete it, but I edited a line, and it went in to "awaiting moderation".

 

Regards,

Anand

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Manisha
(@manisha)
Joined: 6 months ago

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Posts: 151

@anand

Yes, that’s the one. It was there one day, and then gone the next, so I wasn’t sure what happened 😀

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Mirela
Posts: 53
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Hi Manisha,

Ernst's book - Graha Sutras - has amazing answers in regards to these, and a long list of Sanskrit and English names for the planets, and their meanings. I think the book comes in electronic version as well, but not entirely sure...There is a wealth of information there if you ever feel like exploring.

 

Mirela

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Manisha
(@manisha)
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Posts: 151

@mirela

Thank you, sweet Mirela! I listened to the audio course last year around this time (gosh, where does time fly?), but always forget the book.

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Ernst Wilhelm
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Rahu and ketu are the path along which we solve our lajjitaadi avasthas. THey are the battle field. 

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Anand
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@ernst

Hi Ernst,

Based on your comment, my deduction is as follows:

  1. Rahu Ketu is the battle field and lajjitaadi avasthas are the battles.
  2. Any time we take steps to solve a lajjitaadi avastha, we nudge our consciousness awake and this propels us towards Rahu, away from Ketu
  3. When our consciousness is sufficiently awake, we find ourselves in Rahu jungle, not in Ketu castle
  4. Rahu, Ketu indications are absolutely fated, but the more we solve our lajjitaadi avasthas, the more prepared we are for the Rahu experience, whenever it happens.

To use some examples: 

Example 1:  Ketu in 9th house (Gemini) and Rahu in 3rd house (Sagittarius) and Saturn-Mars conjunction in 9th house (Gemini)

  • By solving Saturn and Mars lajjitadi avasthas, the individual becomes less uptight about intellectual concepts (Gemini) about dharma (9th) and becomes more experienced in using trust (Sagittarius)  in casual/practical situations (3rd), trusting (Sagittarius) one's skills and peers (3rd) etc., 
  • In a nutshell, this is the story of the native's current birth?

Example 2:  Ketu in 1st house (Aries) and Rahu in 7th house (Libra) and Sun-Venus conjunction in 8th house (Scorpio)

  • By solving Sun and Venus lajjitadi avasthas, the individual becomes less uptight about self (1st/Aries) and becomes more experienced in Relationships/Partnerships/Sexuality (7th/Libra)
  • In a nutshell, this is the story of the native's current birth?

Can you please confirm my above analysis?

Regards,

Anand

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Ernst Wilhelm
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Yes, that is correct, however. Its also important to remember that in the end, its not about living in the rahu jungle or in the ketu castle, its about making less mistakes in the rahu jungle and living it from a point of clarity and its about being in the ketu castle, but nto stuck in the ketu castle. Early in life we much up the rahu jungle every time we go there and we get stuck completely in the ketu castle. 

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Manisha
Posts: 151
(@manisha)
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@ernst   Please correct me if I am wrong with regards to the following, or if I need to study something else to further my knowledge....

@anand  The need for Free Will denotes the blossoming of awareness in consciousness about the separation that exists within itself. Where does the separation lie? Is it between the head and heart? Is it between the masculine-feminine halves of our psyche? Is it between the mind and body? Is it between the seen and unseen worlds? Or is it between our emotional and mental connections?

Rahu and Ketu are the path of consciousness, of us becoming aware of who we are and what we do and how we do it and why we do it. It is a good thing that becoming conscious is a fated thing, otherwise we would remain unconscious forever, making the same mistakes over and over again, and not getting anywhere. Unfortunately, it is not an instant fix, but a lifelong journey of constant aligning of the Self as we become more and more aware. Round and round the elliptical path we go, with the planets in transit bringing more and more things into our awareness as the years go by.

Most of the times we take action and change our behaviour. Sometimes we decide to ignore the red flags because of a number of factors. We get caught up in what will parents say, what will family say, what will friends say, what will society say, what will religion say. Or sometimes we just get too tired of not seeing anything manifesting in our concrete reality and give up the struggle. Depending on how deeply it is hidden in our subconscious, sometimes we are not aware of what we need to fix, and the advice of others does not resonate, because it goes against our comfort in the Ketu castle.

Needs and desires drive us towards the Rahu jungle, fear and shame and guilt hold us back into the Ketu castle. Sometimes the pull of both Rahu and Ketu are equal. Then, on this battlefield, we lose sight of ourselves completely just like Arjuna did.

We always have Free Will. Once we become aware, then what we do, how we change our behaviours, what we let go of, all of that is in our hands. We might decide we would rather be angry with others, or in a situation that does not bring us satisfaction, or not being true to ourselves - that is our Free Will too. But it is not aligned to the Divine Will which is love and joy and compassion, and we suffer because we are removed from what should be.

Forgiveness is a long excruciating process. It is looking in the mirror at our own faults and taking part of the responsibility. It is forgiving each and everyone who ever played a part in our awakening process, who tried to push us towards our Rahu jungle or tried to help us leave our Ketu castle. Are we willing to walk through the dark shadows within ourselves? This is all in our hands and this is our Free Will.

For me, Rahu-Ketu is like one of the really really old telephone switchboards or the Enfield Telephone Exchange, where all the wires are crossed and muddled up because of our Avasthas, and our jobs as individuals is finding the right slot for the right plugs, so that the Universal Divine Energy can flow through us without hindrance and do its job. Thus, we, as a collective, clear up the flow for the next generation, who might have been born couple of months later, and so on.

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Anand
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@manisha

Your post made me think a bit more on the fate/free-will dynamic.

Logically, every fated incident is along a causality chain and this chain is rooted in free-will.

It is only free-will that can create a causality chain, as every fated incident needs a parent and we can keep tracing the parent till we hit a free will action. If the causality chain is not rooted in free-will, we will be tracing infinitely backward. If we accept infinite tracing of the causality chain, then we will be discarding logic.

The original free-will can be thought of as the one that created the big bang that set the universe expansion into motion.

Now, any time any one of us steps outside the "I" and "mine" consciousness, that person is in a moment of free will and the causality chain (karma) gets disrupted. This disruption should be directly proportional to the time spent out of "I" and "mine" consciousness. So, theoretically speaking,  the disruption can be permanent for the enlightened or liberated ones.

For most of us, who step right back into "I" and "mine" consciousness, we are back in the clutches of fate (creating a new causality chain),  although the fate may have been disrupted slightly or significantly based on the amount of time spent outside "I" and "mine" consciousness.

For an ardent spiritual seeker, who is in a habit of stepping out of "I" and "mine" consciousness, I guess they may be disrupting their fate on a regular basis.

Regards.

Anand

 

 

 

 

 

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Manisha
(@manisha)
Joined: 6 months ago

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Posts: 151

@anand

That is what I have found from my contemplations. Just like Intuition and Logic, Fate and Free Will are also two sides of a coin. Within Fate lies Free Will and within Free Will we find Fate.

What is Fate? A domino effect after the first domino has been put into motion. We always have the Freedom to either push or not push that first instance. Doing or not doing - both are our Free Will, and both have consequences in the form of Fate.

Yes, it is very easy to slip back into the ‘I’ and ‘mine’ consciousness. But I look at it this way - we slipped out of it once, that means we resolved something and made some sort of connection that made us feel less of the separation.

Now we are on to the next level and feel the separation again which causes us to fall back into the ‘I’ and ‘mine’ consciousness. It would have been easier, I think, if there was just one issue to resolve. But then everyone only gets the load that they can carry comfortably. And there are always things that happen to put us on the right path over and over again. 

Thank you for having this conversation. It helped me too.

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