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Understanding Rahu in the 3rd, Ketu in the 9th

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(@qwertym2)
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Hi @ernst and friends,

In Vault of the Heavens, following is mentioned about this placement -

"Ketu in the 9th indicates that the native in recent past lives created security through faith in their belief system. There has also generally been a focus on teaching what one believes. Rahu in the 3rd indicates that they must now test their beliefs through trial and error, to find out what really works for them, as well as displaying their skills, knowledge and talents through active participation rather than through teaching. Rahu here usually indicates a skilled personality and one who is quite focused and directed with the use of their skills, strength and energy.

Ketu in the 9th also indicates that the native has been quite broad in his approach to life and his understanding. Rahu in the 3rd indicates a need to focus on what is of greatest concern, to narrow their approach so that they can effectively complete what is of greatest importance to them."

 

I get the first paragraph, but got confused while reading the second paragraph.

What does the last line mentioning 'a need to focus on what is of greatest concern, to narrow their approach so that they can effectively complete what is of greatest importance to them' means and how it reconciles with 'Rahu in the 3rd indicates that they must now test their beliefs through trial and error, to find out what really works for them' which is also what's discussed in the Healing Rahu Ketu course about this placement. Does that mean you use trial and error(Gemini) only to get more focussed and pin-pointed in your ultimate goal(Sagittarius), and not to get scattered? If so, wouldn't that mean more of like Ketu in 3rd, Rahu in 9th position? Also, if Ketu in 9th has a more Sagittarian(focussed)energy, what does the line 'Ketu in the 9th also indicates that the native has been quite broad in his approach to life and his understanding' mean? I am a little confused about this position, would appreciate any help in clarifications.

 

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(@sharonsegall)
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Joined: 3 years ago

hi there, this quote of Emmanuel Kant reflects for me that rahu/ketu (3/9)axis  well.  i hope it will give you another expression of this energy to understand it better "experience without theory is blind but theory without experience is mere intellectual play"

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Francesca
(@francesca-2)
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@sharonsegall Great quote! I feel like this applies to both Mercury and Jupiter ruled nodal axes to an extent.

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(@sharonsegall)
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@francesca-2 yes its the same energy

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(@manisha)
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If I look at life like a spiral, it becomes building on top of what you already know. So Ketu in any house is something we have learnt in context with, say, ABC. To move to Rahu, would mean learning something new in context with, say, DEF, but perhaps not in a linear manner.

So, Ketu in 9th had found something that worked through trial and error, and hence they developed faith in it, and spread (taught) what they believed in. Now, it’s time to see if that same thing works in the context of this new spiral, and to either scrap it completely or integrate it with renewed faith.

Say, for Ketu in 9th, there is a belief that one should water the garden everyday. Their experience would be that the plants die because of over-watering. So, to move into Rahu in 3rd, would be to experiment with changing the watering schedule or changing the types of plants to those that require watering daily. Rahu in 3rd cannot just theorise, but will actually have to physically do the experiment. It also cannot be mixing multiple theories together while experimenting, but focusing on one variable at a time and watching the results. To facilitate in the experimentation, they will need to communicate with peers to find out what worked for them and see if it works in their garden. That is what active participation would be. What they learn from their experimentation in their garden will then be shared with their peers, moving them back into Ketu in 9th, until it stops working and they will have to find new ways.

'Ketu in the 9th also indicates that the native has been quite broad in his approach to life and his understanding' - since they have already found what worked through trial and error, it has become part of their being and hence they do it instinctually without needing to understand why they are doing what they are doing/teaching. To take the example above about the garden, they will be looking broadly at the requirements of the garden, instead of the requirement of each individual plant.

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(@qwertym2)
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Thanks @manisha for explaining in such detail! It took me a while to understand some parts of your post, but now I guess I am starting to understand them. This is a new perspective for me that rather than having the same broad approach for different areas of life(let's say health, money, relationships, spirituality etc.), specific working approaches need to be learnt/arrived at for different areas of life through trial and error, because what works best in one context might not work best in other context. Is this what you also meant?

So far, I had been interpreting 'Rahu in the 3rd indicates a need to focus on what is of greatest concern, to narrow their approach so that they can effectively complete what is of greatest importance to them' as follows - rather distributing one's energies across multiple goals in life, one focuses their energy on the one ultimate goal that's most important to them. So I have this Rahu 3rd-Ketu 9th placement and I have gone through my Rahu dasha in early part of my life, and I have tested many beliefs to come to better and deeper understanding about world and reality. I have some dharma moksha yogas in my chart and after my life so far full of trial and error to arrive at the meaning and purpose of life, I know self-realization to be the ultimate goal of life, now does that mean I use all those tried and tested beliefs & realizations to focus singularly on this goal? Not sure how correct this interpretation is.

Maybe @ernst can help shed some light here.

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(@manisha)
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@qwertym2

You are most welcome ???? I have the same problem with my Rahu-Ketu axis, in that sometimes it takes me a while to understand. The terms used to describe Rahu and Ketu as ‘Dark’ and ‘Misty’ definitely does it justice.

In a general sense, specific working approaches are needed for different areas of life. One cannot use the same behaviours to deal with the 10th house (outside environment) that we use in the 4th house (home environment). Same with the 12th house versus the 6th house - you cannot work when you are resting. But they do work together to create balance. For example, rest (12th house) does give more energy to work (6th house).

Eventually, as one progresses through understanding the process, specific working approaches will be needed within those different areas of life. Kind of getting to work on subtler levels.

Self-realisation is a life-long process. Unless one has the good fortune (!?) to go be a hermit, the rest of us have to realise ourselves while going about our everyday life. As the saying goes, “Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water”. I guess the only difference is that afterwards, it is much easier to chop wood and carry water. LOL.

'Rahu in the 3rd indicates a need to focus on what is of greatest concern, to narrow their approach so that they can effectively complete what is of greatest importance to them' - Even the smallest thing can be of greatest concern - eating food because one is hungry, planning a budget because there is an expense coming up, making sure the bills are paid, studying a particular astrological technique and testing it over a number of charts because one can’t understand how it works, etc.

We can’t let go of the 9th house completely and just concentrate on the 3rd house. There is a broad idea, and then the minutiae need to be worked out. For example, there is a job interview. Perhaps, a Ketu in 9th will look at the broad picture about what he needs to do to get the job, but a Rahu in 3rd will have to make sure that the clothes to wear for the interview are washed and ironed, figuring out the transportation and time taken to get there, the details of the interview, etc.

I had Rahu Dasa earlier in my life too. Now, what I am doing is thinking back as to what worked and dissecting it as to why it worked that way, and what didn’t work and why it didn’t work and what I could have done differently. That is raw data that could be sifted through to find gold.

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(@jomungur)
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@qwertym2 

Your question is difficult to address without looking at your chart (apologies if you have made it available, I'm new here so not sure).

Generally, Rahu is well placed in the 3rd house in my experience.  This is because Rahu is an incarnating force, as opposed to Ketu which is a liberating force.  Incarnating in the sense of pulling you into the material world. 

On an archetypal level, think of the 3rd house as the arms, the hands of the jiva.  What is the purpose of hands and arms?  To manipulate the immediate physical environment.  But in a very precise way, especially the hands.  And note also there is something *very* special about the hands esoterically; humans have the most dexterous hands of all the animals.  

Rahu works well with this because the hands, the arms, and more abstractly the impulse to manipulate the near field environment is very "Creation oriented".  By Creation I simply mean the prakriti aspect, as opposed to purusha.  Anyway, Ketu is not at home in the 3rd house, it is more at home in the 9th house to be honest relatively speaking because that is about detaching from the immediate environment and taking the "big picture" which includes the whole universe and beyond if you push it.  

That is the higher principle in my understanding.  However, at the personal level much depends on the strength of Rahu and Ketu in the individual chart.

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Marianela
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(@marianela)
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My axis is the opposite, here my experience if it helps: My Ketu in 3 in Gemini feels safe learning and learning and learning..., some years one skill, then another skill or knowledge, then another... there is no danger there, but eventually it's not useful either, because I barely go to life saying this is what I know, this is what I am... In fact I modestly do it, but my attempts lack the faith, the self-confidence or the play of a good salesman 🙂
I see how instead of focusing in what I need to do to make my life work, I spend my time in the safe realm of learning (which is in danger of becoming merely one of amassing).
From Ernst explanation, I see how I have not yet created my "belief system", this is for me the key, the missing key.
My Mercury is in bad dignity in both D-1 and D-9. Trial and error haven't worked for me. It's evident I need something from the scope of faith. I don't know how to start, nevertheless it's a fascinating endeavor.

About the opposite axis.
There is a great musician with Ketu in 9th. And Jupiter joining Rahu in 3rd. A long career, always successful and innovative. From interviews I can see how since her early childhood she knew the music she loves. And music has been her life. It seems she never doubted it. However in her career she has changed projects, invented her own approaches, playing different roles...while keeping the same music style, let's say.
To me it's a very good example of a successful Rahu 3 Ketu 9.

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(@qwertym2)
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Thanks @marianela for sharing the opposite scenario of my Ketu in 9th placement. It seems that in my case, believing this or that will work has been the default mindset that I had to validate through experimentation, whereas in your case learning/experimenting has been the default mindset which has to ideally lead you further into forming beliefs/way of living you can rely on with time.

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Marianela
(@marianela)
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Thanks @qwertym2 An old memory, very concrete example of how in my case there was no connexion between 3 and 9: Since the very early childhood I had talent for drawing, and already as a child I learned oil painting. At 18 I went to University to study Fine Arts. Still there outstanding technique for drawing, painting, modelling...it was jut something flowing so easily. However, I didn't know which motif to take. I didn't know what I want to say. The art world, the tendencies, I didn't like. And myself...My feeling was I have no voice. My own voice was so scary for me even to look at, let alone to make it public. Therefore I gave up. Technique alone is not motivating. At that time I drifted into performance art...which felt more existential. (I was in my Rahu dasa)

The two poles must somehow work together.

Ernst talks about the placement of the lord in respect to its node, 1st, 2nd, 3rd...12th to see how easy and in which way the development can happen.

Thinking about Yogananda. I used to feel quite distant to him. I could not identify with him. With respect I'd say: This is not my style.

However now and with the help of this post, remembering my feelings of resistance...a lot of it was the will: He uses to put a great emphasis on the "will" (3rd house). So that for instance he was saying something like "Nothing is impossible if you join your will to the infinite will of God" Here we have it. The 3rd can certainnly behave selfish, but surely it can also behave dharmic. It is not only the opposite of 9th, also the 3rd of the 3rd is the 5th. For us with the axis there it's one of our foremost cards to play.

Yogananda had Saturn EX in 3rd and Mars joined Jupiter in 9th in Aries

 

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(@jomungur)
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@marianela 

Yes, I know a number of inspired musicians who have Ketu in the 9th.  There are a few reasons for this:

1.  Ketu in the 9th can indicate someone who has a very strong intuitive understanding from past lives.   However, in a number of cases it can also mean people who have spent in-between lives in various deva lokas (heavenly worlds) where they have gained a level of understanding of how to work on levels that you cannot explain down here with the rational mind.  

2.  Music in particular is well suited for Ketu in the 9th.  Not the technical skill (that would be indicated by Venus, Saturn, etc. down here).  But the inspiration, the capacity to channel or tap into archetypal flows of creation from those heavenly worlds.  Knowledge gained at some point from past lives.  I say music because it is the most abstract of the art forms down here- think of how in the tattvas philosophy sound is the highest of the five sense, associated with akasha.  It is the most abstract of the art forms if you think about it...think of how music, or sound generally at a deep level, can go in multiple dimensions if you follow it...(here you have to think of nada and how you can follow that deep inside).  

However, you still need technical skill to translate this music down here.  However, in the future this will be different because the future of music creation is actually in computer and software synthesizers, which again favors Ketu because of Ketu's potential (when strong and focused) to work with abstract principles and technologies.

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Marianela
(@marianela)
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@jomungur 

Thanks Jomungur. Some things you talk about I cannot relate much as they are not in my experience, but thanks anyway for sharing your vision.

And I am very happy you brought to the table this concept of "Nada Yoga". I didn't know about it, but I get so happy just by imagining it...

Thank you very much!

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(@tuyetv)
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Some of my thoughts. 3rd house is associates, team mates, skills/experimentation. 9th house is belief and more. A belief does not mean it is true. You may believe in something, a system, a religion, parents or anything but unless you test it, try it (3rd house), then you don't know if it is right for you or true. People with Ketu in the 3rd Gemini they want all sort of information. They are into experimentation because that is their comfort zone. But if they don't have the belief 9th house that it will work, then they won't apply the skills to practice. You may have the skills but unless you have the belief to put the skills to practice, then you really don't have anything. They have to transition their skills/knowledge which is the 3rd house into the 9th house the belief that it will work

I personally think the people with Ketu in 9th and Rahu in the 3rd have it easier because they have the belief and now they just have to transition that belief by testing, experimenting, practicing 3rd house to confirm their beliefs. Of course you have to look at the dignity and and the chart as a whole...

When i went to graduate school, i find that the professors who work and teach are the best vs the professors who are strictly academic. The professors who work and teach they taught me the business theories but at the same time they also provide me with their practical work experience, what they see out there in real life...

 

tuyet

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(@qwertym2)
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@tuyetv Thanks for sharing. I have Rahu in the 3rd, Ketu in 9th placement and my experience of life so far mirrors the same. Vigorously validating/invalidating beliefs and conditionings about anything and everything in life to arrive at what works/is true/is important. I had a very similar and strong experience about professors in my graduate school, where I felt most of them were too academic and detached from what would work/or matter in practical world.

I am still not clear how this relates with the 2nd paragraph from the VOTH book. I have gone through my Rahu dasha in early part of my life, and I have tested many beliefs to come to better and deeper understanding about world and reality. I have some dharma moksha yogas in my chart and after my life so far full of trial and error to arrive at the meaning and purpose of life, I know self-realization to be the ultimate goal of life, now does that mean I use all those tried and tested beliefs to focus singularly on this goal?

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Marianela
(@marianela)
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@tuyetv Thank you so much.

I was saying I don't know how to start (to step on the 9th Rahu) and you put it down so beautifully simple: "the belief that it will work".

I can start from that.

Indeed, lately I often tell myself: How is "X" going to work when my mind is saying probably it will not work? And recently I realised I have to change my thought.

I have to enter in the palace of thoughts...

Not just saying it artificially like a bad actor, not just saying it to get the reward, but to have the humility to accept/understand "this thought of mine is wrong".

This "it probably won't work" must be conneced to Jupiter agitated, combust, my 9th Lord.

I notice that when the thought is "it will work" the body is filled with energy, whereas when the thought is "probably it won't work", the body is depleting, like a balloon losing air.

Thank you very much!! It really sounds so right.

I can start so simple as that! I don't need to have the full image of my life purpose.

Thanks...

 

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