@staffan
Yes Harp has that expansive quality.. heavenly, cosmic, galactic, even. But that's why more like a Ju-Mo conjunction, as I mentioned.
Oh I just read Marienela's post, yes I agree...Brass is quite Martian to me, though I don't consider it to be aggressive in any negative way. And even within the symphonic context, it's never truly a leader
My idea is that there is no Sun in a symphonic orchestra. They work together, cohesively, and take turns letting each other shine. I think, the musical idea i.e. the composition itself is the Sun, the leader. And more the composer was tuned to the Sun while composing it, the more a composition might let the Sun shine through as a whole. Which of course doesn't always happen.
Glad you mentioned the Indian scale, we have to go deeper on that. Do you by any chance know the name of the seminotes? Did you watch Vic Dicaras video in which he attributes each of the notes to a sign? I wonder whether that could be applied on the Western scale too, that is: Is Muladhar the same as C etc?
If that is so, and if Mitryendras system for the instruments is correct, we can use music as therapy in a probably very effective way: "You should listen to violin music in this key" etc.
I have not seen Vic Dicara or anyones videos. I am a musician though (Indian and Western classical), so just speaking from whatever little knowledge I have.
Music of different cultures work very differently. For example, Indian music is based on relative pitch, not fixed pitch.
So in the system I mentioned (with note and chakras), "Sa" is whatever root note you start on. The root is relative to you, or any individual person. Every other note is built based on that. So if Sa is "C" for a person and thus the Muladhar, then their Swadishthana will be D or Db, and so on and so forth.
But if root note is "A" for a person, then their set of notes changes. I am only giving this equivalence as you seem to know the Western notes. It is of course not learnt that way in Indian classical music (by comparing to Western music). So with respect to music therapy in an Indian classical way, I would rather relate it to raags, rather than a key or pitch. I am not a music therapist though, but I know people are doing some research on that.
@xyzabc Oh, interesting! What´s your instrument(s)?
I´ve always said that Western music is about the exact notes and the relations between them, I mean how they work together, while Indian music is much more about examing the intervall between the notes. Vic Dicara speaks in the video that Mitryendra linked to about 22 notes, that were reduced to just seven basic notes; maybe those 22 notes are the ones that you are examining when you play "between" the notes?
If this concept of mine is correct at all? I know very little about Indian music, it´s more an impression that I have.
Music really does work differently in different cultures, and I´m interested in how it can work as a healing tool. In that sometimes established forms may get in the way, I believe, I tend to go for a more "broken" form, like in much of the modern classical music. That´s how I want to approach the flute, now that I´m at the age of 56 has taken it up with more serious intentions. I would like the flute to play me rather the other way round, I guess you could say.
Please tell us a little about your musical career and/or experience! Are you a professional musician?
Staffan
@xyzabc And I didn´t know that the root note was personal. How does one find out one´s own note?
Staffan
I want to add that when I was first playing around with these ideas, I was considering the role of the human voice, whether as a choir or an opera singer, as part of the system. But then I found confirmation that choirs and singers are not part of an orchestra, so that was out of the picture.
I was considering giving the human musical voice and its role either to the Sun or to Jupiter.
Then I thought maybe the Sun was the conductor as he is like the king of the orchestra. But then realized he is more like a general, or Mars, even at times appearing to do percussion in thin air to give emphasis and timing.
After that, I realized the conductor is really the manager of the music while its being played, which is Mercury. The musicians look to him to keep the music running in a well organized fashion, like Vishnu's role of maintainence.
But whether the conductor was Mars(general) or Mercury(manager) or both, I started thinking about the composer and decided he was the real Sun because his composition is the musical kingdom he created, giving each instrument a delegated role to play.
But the composer is not part of the orchestra, let alone an instrument in one. So I decided to just keep it to "instruments that we hear in an orchestra".
It is not a perfect system, but it shows which planet each instrument is closest to, relative to the others, in this limited context.
You know what is an even less perfect system? Micronutrients. I just can't figure out Saturn.
The Sun would be coenzymes, giving power and vitality to the body and to all the other nutrients and processes. The most well known being coenzyme q10, vital to energy production and for keeping the heart strong and the body's circulation going.
The Moon would be the electrolytes as they are responsible for fluid balance. And sodium and salt, in particular is ruled by the Moon. Our mind and nervous system deteriorate without electrolytes. Also, looking at the full moon is like an electrolyte drink for our computer-fatigued, dehydrated eyes.
Mars would be the B vitamins, as they are responsible for brain and nervous system function, energy metabolism, and blood sugar control.
Mercury would be choline because it is essential for cell structure and messaging. It is used to form the membranes that surround cells, and mercury rules both boundaries and comunication. Choline is also crucial for regulating our cognitive function.
If we were doing macronutrients instead of micro, I would give the amino acids to mercury, as they build protein.
Jupiter would be the Omega fatty acids (if not all the fat-soluble vitamins, especially vitamin D. I know our skin can create D from Sunlight, but as a whole and relative to the others, coenzymes make more sense for the Sun). Jupiter rules fat and an optimistic mood. And Omega-3 fatty acids and vitamin D are the first things recommended for those who want to avoid antidepressants.
If vitamins A and E, (and D) which are fat-soluble, are not under Jupiter's domain, then they would go to Venus as two or three of the major antioxidants. Antioxidents slow aging and rejuvenate us.
But Venus rules vitamin C, no matter what other vitamins it may or may not rule. if Venus rules only one vitamin, it would be the antioxidant vitamin C, as it helps us recover quicker from illness and helps the immune system bounce back. It also keeps our skin young and replenishes the production of neurohormones.
Venus rules the sour taste and those tart citrus fruits are known for the high C content. And they are added to refreshing drinks for luxury and refreshment.
So what is Saturn? All that comes to mind is fiber, but that is not a micronutrient. So maybe calcium and magnesium, or all the trace minerals? But much of those are covered in electrolytes.
The only compromise I have so far is to give the two famous electrolytes, sodium and potassium, to the Moon, and the rest of the trace minerals to Saturn. We all know magnesium helps elimination, Saturns job. Also, we get all the trace minerals from the "dirt" of nature. Think of shilajit.
Maybe I have too much time on my hands right now.
@mitryendra80 And why not just fibers for Saturn? It doesn´t seem to be in Saturn´s nature to provide with anything that builds up, rather it takes out the garbage, which is exactly the function of fibers.
You should re-post this in a separate post so that it gets more available for those who might be interested in nutrition but not in music.
Staffan
@staffan I was sticking to the micronutrients. Things like vitamins and minerals.
Fiber is a macronutrient like protein and carbs.
But Saturn rules fasting, so maybe Saturn doen't get any nutrient after all.
Yes that was a bit of a tangent and probably either should have posted it somewhere else, but I just didn't think it was worthwhile enough to be a topic on its own and I felt rather silly.
@mitryendra80 Yeah, you are right. Not about being silly; about fibers not being micro-.
Well, I think it´s well worth a post of it´s own. For what it´s worth.
Staffan
@staffan i like this post. Its a fun analogy. Macronutrients:Maybe the proteins would be marsian? Fats be Jupiter and (water)moon? Carbs: mercury and venus?
@mitryendra80 I agree with the roles you have given to the planets. Moreover, I think the conductor should definitely be Mercury, while Mars (being the general) should be the percussion (soldiers march to the sound of drums). This is to say that when there is no conductor (no Mercury) present, Mars assumes that role. And that is what happens in popular music, where the one dictating the pace is, more often than not, the drummer. So, you could say that popular music has more of a martial energy, while classical music is more mercurial. This is evident in rock and all its derivations. As some rock subgenres tend to focus on martial qualities like speed (progressive rock), attack (punk), or speed and attack (metal). And you could say rock energy is all about youth, matching the fact that Mars´s deva, Kartikeya, is a child.
@dreamwalker14 @mitryendra80 That sounds like yet another challenge: Is there a genre for each planet? I guess there isn´t, not completely, it´s all mixed obviously. But blues for example has to be ruled by Saturn in some way, right? Chamber music: Venus, for the reasons that Mitryendra has already given.
And the more heavy rock has a Saturn quality too, don´t you think?
To me the conductor must above all represent the Sun, the leader, the pace-giver. But it´s up for discussion.
Staffan
@staffan Well you are right, every genre should have a bit of every planet. But following our logic I would say pop should be Venus because it´s all about falling in and out of love (although Venus is probably related to chamber music too as you say, especially if there is an emphasis on chord instruments, as they have this very romantic quality). I think blues and jazz have some mercurial attributes because they are so playful and resourceful (especially jazz as it can get so harmonically complex). Still, I don´t quite understand what you mean about blues being Saturn-related. I guess you are right about heavy rock, Saturn darkness is there present, as well as in metal.
Regarding the Sun, I remember that in some course (I think it was a Jaimini course, dealing with Atmakaraka, Svamsa, and profession) Ernst said that while the Moon was probably the most important planet for musicians, the Sun was fundamental for a vocalist (for he drags all the attention of the public towards himself and shines more than the others), but I don´t know. The funny thing is that one would think the Sun is the simplest planet to attribute a role, but in this case, we have suggested various: composer, conductor, singer. As a composer, it is the soul of music (as Sun is Paramatman), as the conductor, it also works, for it is exalted in Aries and so it is the brain that controls, conducts, the rest of the body or orchestra, and as a singer it matches the fact that it drags so much attention.
@dreamwalker14 Saturn for blues; well, it´s the common man´s music and it´s a lot about hardships; that was my logic.
Staffan
some work was done in the past on the iching and frequencies. Some planetary alignments were also given.
@quasar259 Interesting, but I don´t know how to interpret the table. Do you happen to know?
Staffan
@staffan the first note DO is A, then it progresses through G and ends up in A at a higher octave.
the stacking table represents the different octaves and the corresponding notes and hexagrams in those octaves. The lowest audible A sound is called A0 at 25.7Hz so the first row is A0-A1, then A1-A2 and so on.
I haven't worked much with the planets, but there was some talk about chakras and chanting mantras and notes and this could be something to work with and see if there is any resonance.
if you want to experiment with mathematical frequencies, here is a chart that is useful.
@quasar259 A little too advanced for me I´m afraid. But I´ll keep it there, it might be that it opens up one day.
TY!
Staffan
I’d like to flesh this discussion out. I might even make an illustration for the instruments and genres to navigate more clearly.
I think putting the finger on the sun instrument might have a good reason behind it. I for one would like to put a finger on the Rasis too, or even naksastras just for the fun of it.
another note:
what would the instrument Tanpura be you think?